Lewis Hamilton driving standards

[enkidu]

Sutil's fault there, it was clear that his tire was punctured, yet he continues on and cuts off Hamilton, cuasing the chain reaction.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv_6xrkS77A[/youtube]

still awesome!

This is a perfect example of why Hamilton was actually right... See the room he gave the renault round the same corner? Then there was the other pic where massa had turned into hamilton. I'm 100% on Hamiltons side with this one.

[enkidu]

Looks to me that Massa has seen Hamilton in his mirrors and started to turn in.

Looks about 2 car lengths early in this pic.

Seeing this pic a quote from James Hunt I picked up the other day while watching a recording of the 1985 Belgian GP springs to my mind:

What discerns a good driver from his lesser peers is his ability to use his mirrors.

When i saw this it happen on TV i thought "hamilton what have you done"

but later saw this and the video, now i'm convinced this was very poor driving by massa! Massa has been off form, and well, this proves it, massa should know to defend the corner much earlier!

anyone would think massa had been hit in the head or something ........







yeah i know, its a poor joke

There we have it, Massa get out of F1!

[enkidu]

OK, OK.. lets look at the incidents to see if it was really low driving standard on Hamilton's part.

Exhibit A:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLtXdVbe ... ture=feedu[/youtube]
do repeat the video at 0:01 several times clearly shows that maldonado did it early. Compare the racing line of the car behind Hamilton... my 2 cents opinion, that is the racing line that maldonado should go. When maldonado doing this, he use the term "defending" the position. For me.. this is a jungle law where the racer who want to overtake does not have a fair chance and have a big chance of possible penalty. So.. The FIA rules itself "does not encourage the overtakes" in F1.

Some people will not agree with me.....

Totally agree with this, defending should be done before the corner not at the apex. He should be positioned to stop Hamilton from going up the inside....

[speedsense]

Reading some of the remarks here, you would have thought that Hamilton has taken out twenty cars in his 77 race F1 career.

FACT: Maldonado was the first car that Hamilton had contact with that didn't finish a race. (not counting Kimi, which was in pitlane and not an attempted pass) Could somebody please name a driver running in F1 (past or present) that hasn't taken a car out in passing situations over 77 races?
If Hamilton's driving standards (in passing choices) aren't of the highest standard, how come he hasn't crashed out more cars? Taking himself out is one thing and only effects him.

Making contact,forcing cars off line and making room where there is none is all part of the race game and when you're good at it and do no harm to ending another's race, then it's a job done superbly well.

If we call a driver dangerous,immature,reckless,lost his mind,wild and brainless, shouldn't we at least have a little proof, like crashing others out of a race?

I'd say with Hamilton we have slightly greater than 1% proof. 1 car, this weekend.

Drivers, Commentators, Journalist all say "you can't pass at Monaco".....maybe they should change that to ...can't pass at Monaco, unless your Hamilton... After all he did finish the race (Albeit with new endplates on his rear wing)

Nothing wrong at all with this "true" racer's standards, he might just set a new kind of record, the least DNF's to a competitor and the most amount of passes in F1.

IMHO

[beelsebob]

Reading some of the remarks here, you would have thought that Hamilton has taken out twenty cars in his 77 race F1 career.

FACT: Maldonado was the first car that Hamilton had contact with that didn't finish a race. (not counting Kimi, which was in pitlane and not an attempted pass) Could somebody please name a driver running in F1 (past or present) that hasn't taken a car out in passing situations over 77 races?
If Hamilton's driving standards (in passing choices) aren't of the highest standard, how come he hasn't crashed out more cars? Taking himself out is one thing and only effects him.

Making contact,forcing cars off line and making room where there is none is all part of the race game and when you're good at it and do no harm to ending another's race, then it's a job done superbly well.

If we call a driver dangerous,immature,reckless,lost his mind,wild and brainless, shouldn't we at least have a little proof, like crashing others out of a race?

I'd say with Hamilton we have slightly greater than 1% proof. 1 car, this weekend.

Drivers, Commentators, Journalist all say "you can't pass at Monaco".....maybe they should change that to ...can't pass at Monaco, unless your Hamilton... After all he did finish the race (Albeit with new endplates on his rear wing)

Nothing wrong at all with this "true" racer's standards, he might just set a new kind of record, the least DNF's to a competitor and the most amount of passes in F1.

IMHO

Yep, two clean passes, two dirty ones, one of which was his fault, around monaco... I put that down as having pretty amazingly high driving standards, not as being the crash kid. It's not like he got into close proximity to other cars exactly twice, and put them out both times, is it

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

So why has Hamilton been called to the stewards 5 from 6 races this season?

Why is their a storm breweing over his conduct not just in the car, but also to his fellow professionals.
Hamilton is not the ONLY driver that can overtake at Monaco. He had the fastest race car on Sunday as ably demonstrated by Buttons pace.
Hell even Schumacher made a clean overtake on his own teammate at the Hairpin!

Hamilton is fast, but he has no god given right to overtake.

In the end, you would expect a penalty for what he did at Monaco. It was amatuer hour and it would be graceful if he took it on the chin. But of course it wasnt his fault was it, he was just being picked on again.........

[andrew]

Let's face it, if it was Vettel that drove like Hamilton in Monaco, most of those defending Hamilton would be baying for Vettels blood and fetching their lynching ropes.

There, I said it.

[Richard]

It takes two drives to make a clean pass. Schumi passed Rosberg at the hairpin because Rosberg kept out of his way once Schumacher was alongside. Same with Schumacher and Hamilton.

Meanwhile Maldonado and Massa both attempted to close the door with inevitable consequences.

I'd love to see a comparison of those 4 moves. We'll find its the reaction of the conceding driver that decides if there will be a collision or not. Its classic game theory.

[Pandamasque]

Let's face it, if it was Vettel that drove like Hamilton in Monaco, most of those defending Hamilton would be baying for Vettels blood and fetching their lynching ropes.

There, I said it.

Wrong.

Many on this forum know that I dislike Hamilton (for being an arrogant child). Surly I would have taken this opportunity to bash him, wouldn't I?

But if you start turning in (or changing lane) when there is already a car, any contact is your fault. You can only use the full width of a race track when there's nobody on the side. I think the defending drivers were at fault in both cases. Even Schumi had enough sanity (!) to realize that he reacted too late and had to give the inside line to LH in St.Devote! And Hamilton himself gave MS enough room at the hairpin, when he was overtaken, same with Rosberg later.
Di Resta's case is different though, as he went for the gap that was never there in the first place.

[andrew]

I don't believe it is wrong at all. I have seen Vettel slaughtered on forums when he makes a mistake. On several occasions I have seen the same people defend Hamilton for doing the same or worse. To an extent on here but to a far greater extend on another site that will remain nameless and by persons who I will not name.

Remember, the brake is always an option and you live to fight another day. If Hamilton had used his brain abnd been patient he would have probably been at least 4th. Despite getting (I refuse to use the word "winning") a championship and being in his 4th season of F1 he still has not realised that the race is longer than the 1st corner. Some people call this being a racer, it is not. I think the Monaco GP showed his true character.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Remember, the brake is always an option and you live to fight another day. If Hamilton had used his brain abnd been patient he would have probably been at least 4th.

Reposting this since we have arm chair driver

I guess he could just press the brakes harder? The only option Lewis had once Maldonado decided to 'close the door' was to cut the corner, which he did to some extent. With overtaking moves done under braking, especially 'out braking', the attacking driver is commited to the move and puts his trust in the lead driver using his mirrors. It's down to the attacker to judge the situation correctly, and it's possible Lewis misjudged this one and made a move from too far back. Regardless, there was no backing out once the move was made.

The drivers have an agreement with each other that they won't move around in braking zones - closing the door late effecitvely, because in F1 it will almost always result in a crash. When making these passes the drivers push the cars to the limit of their stopping ability, there's no such thing as backing out. Unfortunately, it's not like overtaking lorries in your hatch back.

[enkidu]

Let's face it, if it was Vettel that drove like Hamilton in Monaco, most of those defending Hamilton would be baying for Vettels blood and fetching their lynching ropes.

There, I said it.

Wrong.

Many on this forum know that I dislike Hamilton (for being an arrogant child). Surly I would have taken this opportunity to bash him, wouldn't I?

But if you start turning in (or changing lane) when there is already a car, any contact is your fault. You can only use the full width of a race track when there's nobody on the side. I think the defending drivers were at fault in both cases. Even Schumi had enough sanity (!) to realize that he reacted too late and had to give the inside line to LH in St.Devote! And Hamilton himself gave MS enough room at the hairpin, when he was overtaken, same with Rosberg later.
Di Resta's case is different though, as he went for the gap that was never there in the first place.

Yup totally agree, the true racers have that racing respect. Its like when Hamilton and Button go head to head, they leave each other enough room. Some drivers have it and some obviously don't.

I'm wouldnt say hamilton is totally blameless in both those crashes but these are suppose to be top class drivers and turning into someone before the corner when someone is along side you is wrong.... They both reacted late because they didnt see it coming...

[HampusA]

Maldo did not close anything. There was never anything open to begin with.

[beelsebob]

Let's face it, if it was Vettel that drove like Hamilton in Monaco, most of those defending Hamilton would be baying for Vettels blood and fetching their lynching ropes.

There, I said it.

You mean like is happening now about Hamilton – I think there would have been far less protest if it were another driver... It's not like we're all going after DiResta is it – he had at least as messy a race as Hamilton.

[zeph]

Not directed at anybody in particular, but this thread reminds me of some philosopher's saying:

Who is the greater fool, the idiot or the wise man who continues to argue with him?