2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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dans79
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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F1NAC wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:30
Imagine reporting your enemy for flexi rear wing, only to be caught with rear drs flap displaced and most probably DSQed from qualy.
Lol
would also be interesting if the FIA tells your enemy to go away because it passes all the current tests!
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Mchamilton
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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Sieper wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:26
Mchamilton wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:22
pantherxxx wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:18
If FIA don't disqualify him for this, then this game is rigged. Of course that's why he was so fast.
You do realise the drs probably opened like 85.5mm rather than 85 or something trivial. He gained all his time in sector 2 in the corners, turn 8 and 9 in particular. Not on the straights.
Yeah, because he was running a much steeper wing than RBR. That also increases the DRS gain more. All under the smoke and mirrors cover of an fresh engine.
And he drove far better, more efficient lines than Max

zibby43
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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Gonna be interesting to see whether the alleged DRS issue is bound up in the flexi wing debate.

Just fascinating stuff.

TimW
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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Dee wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:31
"An hour before the start of qualifying, Red Bull technical director Adrian Newey and chief engineer Paul Monaghan marched into the FIA office with a mountain of paper and videos. "We wanted to give Mercedes the chance to put this right," said the world championship rival. But even in qualifying, according to the complainants, the rear wing flap flattened out in the final third of the straight when DRS was open. At any rate, the TV images conveyed this impression.

Whether the request for clarification will be converted into a protest has not yet been decided. "We still have to consider our further course of action," Marko urged prudence. Mercedes had been informed by the FIA of Red Bull's request before the time chase.

"Let them protest quietly. Nothing will come of it," promises Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff. "Red Bull can save itself the protest."

The FIA inspected the number 44 Mercedes after qualifying. The focus was on the top flap with the DRS open. The minimum distance of 10 millimeters to the lower element complied with the regulations, but the maximum distance of 85 millimeters apparently did not, according to technical commissioner Jo Bauer. He passed the matter on to the stewards. They sent Mercedes an invitation to a hearing for 7:15 p.m. local time. It could be a long night for those involved"

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ifikation/
Could be that they tested the DRS opening while doing the rear wing load test. So that the DRS opens further when under load.

However, then you would expect Bottas car to have the same issue. So I think it is more likely that something is broken.

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west52keep64
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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Normally a technical regulation breach is pretty clear, so if it's failed the test it will clearly be a back of the grid start for Hamilton. The WDC is so much closer for Verstappen now.

Dee
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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TimW wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:37
Dee wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:31
"An hour before the start of qualifying, Red Bull technical director Adrian Newey and chief engineer Paul Monaghan marched into the FIA office with a mountain of paper and videos. "We wanted to give Mercedes the chance to put this right," said the world championship rival. But even in qualifying, according to the complainants, the rear wing flap flattened out in the final third of the straight when DRS was open. At any rate, the TV images conveyed this impression.

Whether the request for clarification will be converted into a protest has not yet been decided. "We still have to consider our further course of action," Marko urged prudence. Mercedes had been informed by the FIA of Red Bull's request before the time chase.

"Let them protest quietly. Nothing will come of it," promises Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff. "Red Bull can save itself the protest."

The FIA inspected the number 44 Mercedes after qualifying. The focus was on the top flap with the DRS open. The minimum distance of 10 millimeters to the lower element complied with the regulations, but the maximum distance of 85 millimeters apparently did not, according to technical commissioner Jo Bauer. He passed the matter on to the stewards. They sent Mercedes an invitation to a hearing for 7:15 p.m. local time. It could be a long night for those involved"

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ifikation/
Could be that they tested the DRS opening while doing the rear wing load test. So that the DRS opens further when under load.

However, then you would expect Bottas car to have the same issue. So I think it is more likely that something is broken.
Am I right in saying that may be an explanation but won't stop the FIA giving a penalty?

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dans79
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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Why 7:15 local time?

That's over 3 hours from now if i have the time conversions right off the top of my head.
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search
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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such a penalty would probably be imposed for the sprint race, as he wouldn't have set a qualifying time, correct? He potentially could still start Sunday's race in Top 10 then

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dans79
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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Dee wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:40
Am I right in saying that may be an explanation but won't stop the FIA giving a penalty?
Depends if it's a new test that someone just made up or not. Just like earlier this year, if they change tests, teams have to be given time to comply with the new ones.
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Dee
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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search wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:43
such a penalty would probably be imposed for the sprint race, as he wouldn't have set a qualifying time, correct? He potentially could still start Sunday's race in Top 10 then
Ham would have to finish P5 in 24 laps from last place to start top 10 as he has a 5 place grid penalty on Sunday.

MuseF1
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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dans79 wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:42
Why 7:15 local time?

That's over 3 hours from now if i have the time conversions right off the top of my head.
Nope. 19:15 / 7.15pm Local Time (Sao Paolo) was 30minutes ago.
Last edited by MuseF1 on 13 Nov 2021, 00:46, edited 1 time in total.

Dee
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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dans79 wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:43
Dee wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:40
Am I right in saying that may be an explanation but won't stop the FIA giving a penalty?
Depends if it's a new test that someone just made up or not. Just like earlier this year, if they change tests, teams have to be given time to comply with the new ones.
What are you on about? You can't just make up a test on the spot out of thin air.

This test has specific measurements that Hamilton's car failed, most likley introduced as part of the new flexi-wing TD.

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search
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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Dee wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:44
search wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:43
such a penalty would probably be imposed for the sprint race, as he wouldn't have set a qualifying time, correct? He potentially could still start Sunday's race in Top 10 then
Ham would have to finish P5 in 24 laps from last place to start top 10 as he has a 5 place grid penalty on Sunday.
ah, right, forgot about the 2nd penalty still to come on top

TimW
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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dans79 wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:43
Dee wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:40
Am I right in saying that may be an explanation but won't stop the FIA giving a penalty?
Depends if it's a new test that someone just made up or not. Just like earlier this year, if they change tests, teams have to be given time to comply with the new ones.
It would again be a grey area. How much movement makes it a "moveable aerodynamic device"....

Anyway, if so, it would be weird if Bottas car is compliant an Hamilton's is not if it is by design.

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dans79
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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Dee wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:46
dans79 wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:43
Dee wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:40
Am I right in saying that may be an explanation but won't stop the FIA giving a penalty?
Depends if it's a new test that someone just made up or not. Just like earlier this year, if they change tests, teams have to be given time to comply with the new ones.
What are you on about? You can't just make up a test on the spot out of thin air.
The FIA has done plenty of dumb stuff over the years.

Perhaps someone will remember better than me but didn't Charlie inspect a floor one time by trying to stand on it.
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