Petition to FIA - 2026 rules canceled, V10s in 2028

[CHT]

Purist will prefer the V10, while technologist and environmentalist may prefer current hybrid.

Purists of what?

Entertainment, just like going to rock concert listening to loud speakers instead of headphones
The same reason why consumers are willing to spend hundreds of thousand on ICE supercar or million on hypercars, with loud engine. Its the noise that create the thrill, not so much about power like EV motors.

[JordanMugen]

Purist will prefer the V10, while technologist and environmentalist may prefer current hybrid.

Purists would choose performance over sound any day. If a low revving i4 with muted sound is faster, a purist would go for it. Just look back at the BMW turbo i4. The most powerful engine ever used in F1.

We'll see about those sales numbers on the fully electric Boxster, Cayman and 911...

This is obviously an age where, on the road, electric vehicles are almost always faster than ICE vehicles (at least in a straight-line) hence ICE being a celebration of ICE enjoyment, and thus preferably NA (usually meaning an older vehicle from "peak ICE" under outdated emissions regulations like the Lexus LFA or Ferrari 458).

If you want to go fast, you choose electric surely?

If your point holds true why do 911 Carrera Cup and 911 GT3 use the inferior performing naturally-aspirated flat-six?

You reject the notion there is an advantage to the more responsive (more electric-like?) throttle response, simplicity of installation and reliability of the naturally aspirated flat-six over the twin-turbocharged flat-six (or turbocharged flat-four if Porsche should so choose) for Carrera Cup racing and endurance racing?

[Seanspeed]

I really grew tired of the "road relevance" regs once they did their job of attracting the manufacturers. It's all played out now.

I dont know what you're defining as 'road relevance regs', as this was an effort that spanned multiple decades and many different regulation eras. And as we saw, you couldn't 'lock in' any manufacturers longer term, as they would and could leave as they saw fit. You cant just bait them in and then switch up things and expect them to stay.

It's also not 'played out now'. The '26 regs were quite clearly successful in bringing in interest and participation.

The problem is ever that 'road relevance' is more a perceptual thing than anything that has to be real. Car manufacturers dont want to jump into an ultra expensive sport like F1 while pushing what is seen by much of the public as 'outdated' technology(aka pure ICE powertrains). It required a serious commitment to hybrid technology to get them onboard with the new regs.

And to be clear, I do like your suggestion, ignorant as I am about its actual feasibility. I truly think that F1 has lost something significant with the lackluster noise and volume of these modern hybrid setups.

Ironically the fix is easy. Proper sound reproduction on the world feed. They sound so much better in person than on TV.

No they really dont. My whole recent participation of this topic comes specifically from coming from Goodwood Festival of Speed and seeing/hearing all these F1 cars up close. The new F1 cars sound pitiful in person compared to even most non-F1 race cars, let alone basically any actual F1 car pre-2014.

[CHT]

Purist will prefer the V10, while technologist and environmentalist may prefer current hybrid.

Purists would choose performance over sound any day. If a low revving i4 with muted sound is faster, a purist would go for it. Just look back at the BMW turbo i4. The most powerful engine ever used in F1.

We'll see about those sales numbers on the fully electric Boxster, Cayman and 911...

This is obviously an age where, on the road, electric vehicles are almost always faster than ICE vehicles (at least in a straight-line) hence ICE being a celebration of ICE enjoyment, and thus preferably NA (usually meaning an older vehicle from "peak ICE" under outdated emissions regulations like the Lexus LFA or Ferrari 458).

If you want to go fast, you choose electric surely?

If your point holds true why do 911 Carrera Cup and 911 GT3 use the inferior performing naturally-aspirated flat-six?

You reject the notion there is an advantage to the more responsive (more electric-like?) throttle response, simplicity of installation and reliability of the naturally aspirated flat-six over the twin-turbocharged flat-six (or turbocharged flat-four if Porsche should so choose) for Carrera Cup racing and endurance racing?

When it comes to Porsche, purist will still go for the flat-6 engine and couple that will sport exhaust. The way the engine deliver the power from 4,500rpm to redline is just intoxicating. You wont get that from an EV.

Top end power and century sprint are good for statistic junkies, not so much in real world application due to public road speed limit, but the thrill of a roar engine is special, and if you crack it up in the tunnel, that is just gold.

Used ICE Porsche has more collectable values, not EV or flat 4 engine. even the top model of 718 are flat 6.

[Holm86]

Purist will prefer the V10, while technologist and environmentalist may prefer current hybrid.

Purists would choose performance over sound any day. If a low revving i4 with muted sound is faster, a purist would go for it. Just look back at the BMW turbo i4. The most powerful engine ever used in F1.

We'll see about those sales numbers on the fully electric Boxster, Cayman and 911...

This is obviously an age where, on the road, electric vehicles are almost always faster than ICE vehicles (at least in a straight-line) hence ICE being a celebration of ICE enjoyment, and thus preferably NA (usually meaning an older vehicle from "peak ICE" under outdated emissions regulations like the Lexus LFA or Ferrari 458).

If you want to go fast, you choose electric surely?

If your point holds true why do 911 Carrera Cup and 911 GT3 use the inferior performing naturally-aspirated flat-six?

You reject the notion there is an advantage to the more responsive (more electric-like?) throttle response, simplicity of installation and reliability of the naturally aspirated flat-six over the twin-turbocharged flat-six (or turbocharged flat-four if Porsche should so choose) for Carrera Cup racing and endurance racing?

We already saw that when Porsche made the Boxter/Cayman a turbo flat 4, the customers stayed away, and then they reintroduced the flat 6 to those models. Also Mercedes has received a lot of flag for putting a 4 cylinder turbo engine in the C63 hybrid. Nobody buys it.
Even Mate Rimac says he ain't sure his future Rimac hypercars will stay fully electric, even though the Nevera R just set a lot of records, most hypercar customers still wan't real engines, which is why the Bugatti Tourbillion got a V16 N/A engine.

I still don't understand why so many people here want F1 to be more electric, just go watch Formula E, there's everything you want.

There's a reason why so many LOVED the AM Valkyrie at Le Mans this year, and it's not because of it's performance.
Also the Cadillac is loved by fans for its brutal N/A V8.

Personally I still hope F1 goes N/A again, preferably a V10, but a high revving V8 is also good.
If they strap a small MGU-K to it, with some light weight capacitors, to only collect enough energy to have a 5-10 sec overtake boost, it's also fine by me, and they could still call them hybrids.

[Slahinki]

Electric cars sound absolutely god awful, to the point it doesn't matter how quickly they accelerate. They evoke no emotion other than irritation at their high pitched whining noises, no wonder people that are interested in cars chose to stick with models equipped with good sounding combustion engines.

[FDD]

Purists would choose performance over sound any day. If a low revving i4 with muted sound is faster, a purist would go for it. Just look back at the BMW turbo i4. The most powerful engine ever used in F1.

We'll see about those sales numbers on the fully electric Boxster, Cayman and 911...

This is obviously an age where, on the road, electric vehicles are almost always faster than ICE vehicles (at least in a straight-line) hence ICE being a celebration of ICE enjoyment, and thus preferably NA (usually meaning an older vehicle from "peak ICE" under outdated emissions regulations like the Lexus LFA or Ferrari 458).

If you want to go fast, you choose electric surely?

If your point holds true why do 911 Carrera Cup and 911 GT3 use the inferior performing naturally-aspirated flat-six?

You reject the notion there is an advantage to the more responsive (more electric-like?) throttle response, simplicity of installation and reliability of the naturally aspirated flat-six over the twin-turbocharged flat-six (or turbocharged flat-four if Porsche should so choose) for Carrera Cup racing and endurance racing?

We already saw that when Porsche made the Boxter/Cayman a turbo flat 4, the customers stayed away, and then they reintroduced the flat 6 to those models. Also Mercedes has received a lot of flag for putting a 4 cylinder turbo engine in the C63 hybrid. Nobody buys it.
Even Mate Rimac says he ain't sure his future Rimac hypercars will stay fully electric, even though the Nevera R just set a lot of records, most hypercar customers still wan't real engines, which is why the Bugatti Tourbillion got a V16 N/A engine.

I still don't understand why so many people here want F1 to be more electric, just go watch Formula E, there's everything you want.

There's a reason why so many LOVED the AM Valkyrie at Le Mans this year, and it's not because of it's performance.
Also the Cadillac is loved by fans for its brutal N/A V8.

Personally I still hope F1 goes N/A again, preferably a V10, but a high revving V8 is also good.
If they strap a small MGU-K to it, with some light weight capacitors, to only collect enough energy to have a 5-10 sec overtake boost, it's also fine by me, and they could still call them hybrids.

Just for info, M. Rimac produce nothing, he is an ordinary criminal.
He is using money for nothing, from Croatian tax payers.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

I dont know what you're defining as 'road relevance regs', as this was an effort that spanned multiple decades and many different regulation eras. And as we saw, you couldn't 'lock in' any manufacturers longer term, as they would and could leave as they saw fit. You cant just bait them in and then switch up things and expect them to stay.

It's also not 'played out now'. The '26 regs were quite clearly successful in bringing in interest and participation.

The problem is ever that 'road relevance' is more a perceptual thing than anything that has to be real. Car manufacturers dont want to jump into an ultra expensive sport like F1 while pushing what is seen by much of the public as 'outdated' technology(aka pure ICE powertrains). It required a serious commitment to hybrid technology to get them onboard with the new regs.

And to be clear, I do like your suggestion, ignorant as I am about its actual feasibility. I truly think that F1 has lost something significant with the lackluster noise and volume of these modern hybrid setups.

Ironically the fix is easy. Proper sound reproduction on the world feed. They sound so much better in person than on TV.

No they really dont. My whole recent participation of this topic comes specifically from coming from Goodwood Festival of Speed and seeing/hearing all these F1 cars up close. The new F1 cars sound pitiful in person compared to even most non-F1 race cars, let alone basically any actual F1 car pre-2014.

In YOUR opinion. My participation comes from working trackside at Silverstone. The current F1 cars are loud but not too loud and have a throaty bass and midrange not conveyed on TV as well as a complex sound with more than just the basic ICE sounds you get from other configurations.

Compared to historic F1 cars that are too loud with an ear piercingly high pitched scream that requires hearing protection even inside buildings next to the track.

Of course that is all in MY opinion.

Neither is right, neither is wrong and both are valid.

But you cannot surely tell me that the sound on TV is the same as in person, because that is empirically not the case.

[mzso]

Purist will prefer the V10, while technologist and environmentalist may prefer current hybrid.

Purists of what?

Entertainment, just like going to rock concert listening to loud speakers instead of headphones
The same reason why consumers are willing to spend hundreds of thousand on ICE supercar or million on hypercars, with loud engine. Its the noise that create the thrill, not so much about power like EV motors.

So not F1 fans, not technology enthusiats, not racing fans...
If you need sound for entertainmainent, you can listen to some good metal music while watching F1. It's way better than engine noise.

They're willing to spend money is because they're rich. And rich people buy expensive stuff, so they can feel superiors.
Also, fashion: If one monkey sees the other doing something, he will want to do the same.

[mzso]

If your point holds true why do 911 Carrera Cup and 911 GT3 use the inferior performing naturally-aspirated flat-six?

Maybe part of his point is that you're not a purist. (Not that anyone defined "purist")
And you're just simply motivated by nostalgia and hollow sentiment.

[mzso]

I still don't understand why so many people here want F1 to be more electric, just go watch Formula E, there's everything you want.

I could just as easily say, you should go watch classic GP racing. And it would make a lot more sense. Since your desire is to experience more primitive technologies.
If F1 goes backwards to pure NA V10/V8 it should be renamed. To Formula Nostalgia, and give the F1 name to FE or something.

Personally I still hope F1 goes N/A again, preferably a V10, but a high revving V8 is also good.
If they strap a small MGU-K to it, with some light weight capacitors, to only collect enough energy to have a 5-10 sec overtake boost, it's also fine by me, and they could still call them hybrids.

So no technical reasons, no rational reasons. "Just let them be V10 for the love of god, nothing else matters. If the must they can slap an teeny electric motor on it for excuse"
Gotta love reading this same sort of "argument" over-and-over on a technical forum...

[mzso]

Electric cars sound absolutely god awful, to the point it doesn't matter how quickly they accelerate. They evoke no emotion other than irritation at their high pitched whining noises, no wonder people that are interested in cars chose to stick with models equipped with good sounding combustion engines.

Actually they have the same sounds as ICE cars have. They use straight cut gears, same as ICE racecars, so that is what you hear. But also the sound the tires and the parts scraping the tarmac, or barriers when that happens.

I actually found it refreshing in 2014 when I first heard F1 cars' tires screeching or hearing the cars bottoming out, scraping the tarmac. It's as if someone unmuted those things.

[Slahinki]

Calling the internal combustion engine a primitive technology is incredibly ignorant considering they are infinitely more complex than electric motors.

Gotta love reading the same backwards technology "argument", while praising an invention from 1821 over and over on a technical forum.

[Slahinki]

Electric cars sound absolutely god awful, to the point it doesn't matter how quickly they accelerate. They evoke no emotion other than irritation at their high pitched whining noises, no wonder people that are interested in cars chose to stick with models equipped with good sounding combustion engines.

Actually they have the same sounds as ICE cars have. They use straight cut gears, same as ICE racecars, so that is what you hear. But also the sound the tires and the parts scraping the tarmac, or barriers when that happens.

I actually found it refreshing in 2014 when I first heard F1 cars' tires screeching or hearing the cars bottoming out, scraping the tarmac. It's as if someone unmuted those things.

So they sound the same as ICE cars with the exception of the actual ICE itself, the most important and significant part of a cars sound profile? Do you even hear yourself man? This is ridiculous.

[mzso]

So they sound the same as ICE cars with the exception of the actual ICE itself, the most important and significant part of a cars sound profile? Do you even hear yourself man? This is ridiculous.

It is ridiculous, arguing for noise.