Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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ReLax
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Joined: 30 Jan 2012, 20:10
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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tomaswrx wrote:
In my opinion, to set a car 100 % for a rain, when weather forecast says a moderate or heavy rain at 4 p.m. is big risk as race will be over by then. I don't understand mercs tactics at all...
They didn't set up the car for rain, that would be the dumbest thing ever made in the 201X F1. Nowaday's you don't gain so much with set up gamble.
We have to face the truth. This team didn't developed the car since the big update. And srsly, that's not a good strategy.

sidmiester
sidmiester
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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In my opinion, to set a car 100 % for a rain, when weather forecast says a moderate or heavy rain at 4 p.m. is big risk as race will be over by then. I don't understand mercs tactics at all...[/quote]
i remember paddy lowe quotes saying that ... such a thing like wet set-up doesnt exist in modern F1!

Mestrades
Mestrades
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Joined: 16 Feb 2012, 18:44

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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It's time to remember things like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNDZmofMePY

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Well I guess now we will see if Daimler is preparing to axe some staff.
How they can suffer tyre problems 3 years on the trott is a mystery. Perhaps it's why Costa is present, to see first hand the problems they have.
Very dissapointed today, but there are no points for qualifying and at least there is a high chance of rain, blunting the cars in front advantages.

Brackley need to sort this out, and quickly.
More could have been done.
David Purley

Ganxxta
Ganxxta
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Mestrades wrote: Michael will not continue next year.
Well if they continue to go backwards, than of-course not, I don't think its fun to fight with the Caterhams if you are a 7 times World Champion.

He should consider to drive in Le Mans, thats still real racing and will be the series with the most advanced (engine) technology by 2014.

sidmiester
sidmiester
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Ganxxta wrote:I wonder how all the other Teams are working so they can bring updates the whole year AND develop next years car.
Mercedes is shifting ALL effort every year after half the season onto next year and they are gaining nothing -.-

:(
yeah i agree,
been wondering that too. besides mercedes isnt a small team like torro rosso or caterham that 5-6 races they dont bring updates at all and all of sudden bring 1 huge update, and stay unchanged for next couple of races....

when i heard crofty in sky sports f1 saying that brawn said they have been using shifting resources on next year car, and will maybe revert their focus to bring updates on this year car, so have they already abandon this year championship???

this is not good enough..

ross needs to be fired..... he putting this team at severe risk of getting abandoned by mercedes.... mercedes have yet to sign concorde deal as well.

wish bell gets the role as team principal with him given privilege to release incompetent people and bring new people... this team needs a breath of fresh air....

btw im convinced costa and willis will do well but under ross ... this team will fall badly....

marcush.
marcush.
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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as I said before -the team is specifically weak in analysing its own problems , predicting what is important and what to accept as it is.
They always seem to concentrate on tyre understanding but it seems this is not the root of the issues ever ...as some guy here has politely pointed out .there is only< so much you can do to exploit the tyres and at a certain point you just have to accept what they can and what not..
A complete desaster.Will Brawn return after the summer break? what about Norby ? I firmly believe now is crunch time and Zetsche is already swingin the axe ..the only question is -will he chop the heads of Haug and Brawn only or will he erase the whole desease?

C´mon Bell is in for one and a half years ...And Costa now almost one year in and now is the first time to appear at the track ....I just feel sorry for Michael who put in all that effort to see his passion spoiled by incompetent management of recources .

sidmiester
sidmiester
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Well I guess now we will see if Daimler is preparing to axe some staff.
How they can suffer tyre problems 3 years on the trott is a mystery. Perhaps it's why Costa is present, to see first hand the problems they have.
Very dissapointed today, but there are no points for qualifying and at least there is a high chance of rain, blunting the cars in front advantages.

Brackley need to sort this out, and quickly.

axing bigois was great, but they need to axe ross ... great engineer and strategist he is ... but mercedes shouldnt live with past glories.

ross got 3 years.... 3 years ... i dont even think that williams or sauber got that kind of privilege...with BMW
and dr. zetche has so far been incredibly patient and kind and not interfering team with internal politics and let ross work at peace...

well time for dr. zetche to say enough...

i think better off making bell as team principal and under him making some changes and bringing people where he think its necessary and axing those who havent been good enough...

sometimes its strange that...there are 2 -or 3 weeks of interval before next race... what in hell are these people doing...

it was not if like team have 1 weeks before next race...

they had plenty of time... they have gone worse and worse

sidmiester
sidmiester
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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marcush. wrote:as I said before -the team is specifically weak in analysing its own problems , predicting what is important and what to accept as it is.
They always seem to concentrate on tyre understanding but it seems this is not the root of the issues ever ...as some guy here has politely pointed out .there is only< so much you can do to exploit the tyres and at a certain point you just have to accept what they can and what not..
A complete desaster.Will Brawn return after the summer break? what about Norby ? I firmly believe now is crunch time and Zetsche is already swingin the axe ..the only question is -will he chop the heads of Haug and Brawn only or will he erase the whole desease?

C´mon Bell is in for one and a half years ...And Costa now almost one year in and now is the first time to appear at the track ....I just feel sorry for Michael who put in all that effort to see his passion spoiled by incompetent management of recources .
i dont necessarily blame bell because he had to make such a significant improvement from poor car last year. .. and this car was still worked under bigois... so i guess we can cut some slack for bell.

and also for willis or costa...

i feel biggest problems have been people from aero department.... and R&D... and obviously the main man ross brawn... he has been given great privilege to work in peace... 3 years ... thats more than enough to make team competitive...
besides brackley factory has great resources...

sidmiester
sidmiester
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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mercedes board need to make emergency meeting with ross.

seriously...

when mclaren finishes 7- or 8 th or whatever just barely mking top 10... they have a serious technical meeting and suddenly team have made significant improvement,

in jerez ferrari were nowhere, and they are one of thee best team now by 10 races...

red bull had problems in first few races, but every race they have been very keen to make changes , minor to major changes around exhaust, and by bahrain they are one of the top teams...

williams being one of the worst team, and now they are fighing for podium...

force india were falling away from williams sauber and they have brought significant updates... and they are better...

cmon mercedes... they are suppose to do better job..!!!

front wing , floor , diffuser , RW / undercut, sidepods, suspensions, .... you name it... even small minor focus in details makes great deal of difference... specially this year when its so tight... thats why even red bull ferrari mclaren they are rivals but they are great because they are constantly studying the details...

mercedes are so poor by their standard, no tests, no sensor experimenting, no flow vis airflow studies, no minor updates, nothing much... ...

thats just appalling. ..

i finally understood why button decided to sign for mclaren...

heard that nico had clause in his contract that if mercdes dont fight for championship by 2013 he can get out from team..

michael can retire or its not happening but he would have got couple of victories and podium had he been driving for ferrari...


1-2 years i understand its been 3 years!!!!

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Let's see now, since two races back we have heard the litany about the W03 not being suited for high-speed corners,
which is a shame really as F1 has a lot to do with speed, but what kind of corners do the have in Hungary then?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

tomaswrx
tomaswrx
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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I was referring to clipsy1H post, where he mentioned that car is ok, and team should only wait for a rain. I think car is a crap. And rain will not help...

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Why they don't have any test rig equipment is also a mystery I agree.

The top 3 use it, and make sense of it why can Mercedes not?
Brawn has to answer a lot of questions.
The problem is, if there are many fires at brackley, maybe the creative guys are using their time to put out these fires instead of getting on with the job at hand.
No real updates in over 3 months? What is going on back at the factory?

In my optimism, I can see bell not authorising updates if there is no tangible gain. I can also see him giving ultimatums to under performing staff/departments, that of there is no improvements, their necks are up for the chopping board.
With this kind of thing going on in the background, it is plausible to see why Mercedes are in this position.

If this is not the case, and 3 months have elapsed with no updates with the factory working as expected.... Then there is a massive headache for Mercedes.

Bring back Neubauer!
More could have been done.
David Purley

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SeijaKessen
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Why they don't have any test rig equipment is also a mystery I agree.

The top 3 use it, and make sense of it why can Mercedes not?
Brawn has to answer a lot of questions.
The problem is, if there are many fires at brackley, maybe the creative guys are using their time to put out these fires instead of getting on with the job at hand.
No real updates in over 3 months? What is going on back at the factory?

In my optimism, I can see bell not authorising updates if there is no tangible gain. I can also see him giving ultimatums to under performing staff/departments, that of there is no improvements, their necks are up for the chopping board.
With this kind of thing going on in the background, it is plausible to see why Mercedes are in this position.

If this is not the case, and 3 months have elapsed with no updates with the factory working as expected.... Then there is a massive headache for Mercedes.

Bring back Neubauer!

JET, with all due respect, have you ever considered that MGP is not long for this world?

This goes way beyond simply getting the team to provide updates.

The organization as a whole is flawed from top to bottom.

No amount of money, talk, or hiring of engineers can save this team.

The only option MGP has is to either fire everyone involved and start from scratch. That's not the most attractive option since the whole purpose of buying Brawn GP was to avoid having to do such a thing.

The other option, and the more likely of the two is for the Daimler board and Dr. Z to concede that they made a fatal error in accepting the word of Ross and Norby that this was a race ready team capable of contending right away. Thus, the only real course of action is to sell off the team to an interested buyer, of which I am certain they can do, even though they may be selling for pennies on the dollar.

All I hear from you, and other people are a combination of promises, and then excuses for when the promises never actually come to fruition.

I had people telling me in February the W03 was going to be the fastest car in a straight line.

Then that came and gone.

Next was the insistence that the Merc was great in corners, which would make up for their top speed.

That didn't quite pan out.

So then we were told the Merc was not good in high speed corners, but it had superior traction in low speed corners.

That hasn't actually happened either.

So next we're told MGP is attempting to get a handle on the tire situation...even though they had months to do this. Extended FP sessions at the Hungaroring were to be the answer to all of Merc's woes. "If they have a handle on their tire situation, things will be good!"

Clearly this isn't actually the case either.

Next up is we're told the appearance of Costa at the Hungaroring bodes well for Merc's future since it should give them things to work on for the next month in preparation for Belgium.

Then several moments later we're told how Ross and company are essentially waving the white flag on the W03 and the 2012 campaign. But they assure everyone come 2013 the W04 will be a contender.

Does this sound familiar?

It's all smokes and mirrors around this team.

No one actually does anything because the organization for a lack of a better word, SUCKS.

The only thing that has kept this team slightly above water is the fact that they didn't have to start from scratch. But eventually all this has finally caught up with them. The W03 is a midfield car at best.

I'm not sure why you keep making up excuses for a inept team that hasn't proven they can do much of anything.

Rest assured, the Final Judgment is coming for this team, and no amount of apologies will save them.

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mep
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Welcome my friends to the usual Mercedes bashing meeting we held each two weeks.
What is new this weekend?
Ah yea this time Mercedes was not declared the secret favourite because the track will suit the car so well. Actually it was expected that they will underperform as this track has a lot of corners and the only thing the car might be good at is in going straight.

Again they left everything up to the last lap of Schumacher to get into a decent starting position but this time luck was not on their side. Actually you could imagine they learned from last weekend and don't make such a mistake again but wait learning from mistakes was never one of their strengths.

I must admit I am actually pleased to see them starting from P17. It is the kind of kick in the face some people need to make them wake up and realise they do ---. I just feel sorry for the drivers.

But seriously guys we get comments from the team like "We focused on understanding the tire or we have already focused on next year"!!!

Imho that is a desperate attempt to excuse bad performance and actually I regard it as an attempt to foolish the fans. If they think we are that stupid that they can lie at us then they make a big mistake.

F1 teams are setup with different departments. There is a aero department and there is a vehicle performance department. The aero guys can do their work absolutely independent no matter if the other department understands the tires or not. Or do they try to tell us that they moved some aero engineers into a other department to understand tires?

Same story with next year's car. Within the aero department there is a group which always works on next year's car and the others work on the current car.