Mclaren Honda 2015

[motobaleno]

Hearing a lot of rumor on Torro Rosso moving to Honda PU next year?

I hope Honda is not considering this. Red Bull will be using Ferrari engine next year. You dont want Ferrari and Red Bull to know everything about Honda engine.

In fact after this year's performance, I will be surprised if Torro Rosso was to pay money and take Honda engine.

the rumors by omnicorse stated that honda offered their engines for free to toro rosso in order to boost the improvement of their engines having one more team testing...

anyway toro rosso is in a quite critical position if RB and ferrari reach an agreement for 2016, ferrari cannot have 4 customer teams...If they fail I guess matesicz would not want to have ferrari around anymore even for toro rosso given that RB will not quit at all

[holeindalip]

They won't have 4 customer cars, manor switching to Mercedes power for '16

Ferrari
Sauber
And maybe red bull

[NL_Fer]

Don't forget Haas, which will be a little sisterteam like Torro Rosso to RedBull. If Honda want's to supply another team, i suspect it would be poor Sauber. If this almost bankrupt backmarker can run less than a second off slower than McLaren with the same PU, Ron has some explaining to do.

[kptaylor]

Hearing a lot of rumor on Torro Rosso moving to Honda PU next year?

Source Please?

Thanks in advance.

Saw the Omnicourse reference so, Googled it and translated it:
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... rev=search

On the eve of the Italian Grand Prix seemed all done: Red Bull was going to close with Mercedes to supply turbo V6 for 2016 and Toro Rosso with Ferrari after giving (or receiving ...) both the marching orders from Renault after the international criticism from Milton Keynes throughout the current season. The last few weeks have instead revealed far more complex scenarios, with the team Austro-British and Faenza remained without power unit and both with their backs to the wall.

RED BULL: BLOWN MOTORS FERRARI, SEARCHES BY RED BULL
The ban came from the upper floors of the team Mercedes AMG F1 - that Toto Wolff and Niki Lauda - to provide Mercedes engines to Red Bull for 2016 have done so starting a domino effect which also involved Toro Rosso, until a few weeks ago convinced having in hand the V6 turbo Ferrari for next season. The engines of Maranello are now the only possible alternative and valid for Red Bull, who would like to avoid with all his strength to rely on Honda V6, or the alternative to Ferrari, but much less attractive in terms purely sporting.

MARANELLO CAN NOT 'GIVE BOTH ENGINES TEAM
Each manufacturer of engines will provide engines to not more than 4 teams in 2016. Ferrari has already established links with Sauber F1 Haas and therefore could sell engines to another team and, at present, this should be the Red Bull. Mercedes already committed - will provide itself, Force India, Williams and Manor - Toro Rosso remains only Honda, because Renault has announced that in 2016 will not have customer teams.

HONDA OFFERS FREE ENGINES TORO ROSSO
In the last hours the contacts between the leaders of the team from Faenza and those of Nissan were begun and the deal progresses. Toro Rosso, as well as Red Bull can not afford to wait much time to have a power unit, you will have to design the installation of the new V6 in the rear of the new STR11. According to reports from our internal sources at Honda, the Japanese would offer its own power unit without asking for any payment in return, thus free. The reason is simple: a team led by Franz Tost should help Honda to accelerate the development of the engine that this season has largely disappointed with McLaren and showed significant progress, which is what we expected from Arai and partners.

WORLD COUNCIL CAN 'CHANGE SCENARIO
Contacts between Red Bull and Ferrari have not yet been approved, but it is clear that the present state of things, the combination is becoming increasingly difficult to achieve by 2016. Easier to see the Red Bull back to mount the engines of Maranello, as was the case back in 2006. This afternoon is meeting in Paris the World Council of Motorsport and things could change. If the maximum number of teams that can provide a home would increase from 4 to 5, then even Toro Rosso could slingshot on the power unit of Modena. At present, however, this is only a hypothesis. To be certain in this regard we will have to wait for the response of the meeting in Paris.

[santos]

They won't have 4 customer cars, manor switching to Mercedes power for '16

Ferrari
Sauber
And maybe red bull

Ferrari it's not a customer team. Next year, Ferrari will provide engines to Sauber, Haas and let's see what happens with Red Bull.

[McG]

It's going to be much more competitive next year all through the field. Manor with Mercedes engines and Haas in cahoots with Ferrari could make it difficult for McLaren.

Imagine if Honda had left it to 2016 to enter! There is a possibility that McLaren could have finished 11th. I think the great all seeing Ron Dennis foreseen this and chose to take the pain this year

McLaren should be able to beat Manor next year but Haas are possibly going to be a solid midfield team.

[bauc]

Hearing a lot of rumor on Torro Rosso moving to Honda PU next year?

Source Please?

Thanks in advance.

Saw the Omnicourse reference so, Googled it and translated it:
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... arch[quote]

From personal experience, I've learned not to trust Omnicousre, but anything is possible

[superdowg316]

This last week has suggested things seem to be looking up for McLaren. Jenson is retained so their driver lineup is the same for the first time since 2012, Chandron is a new/replacing sponsor, Telefonica is looking like becoming their new title sponsor and Honda believe it's 2016 revises will bring McLaren back to the front. I certainly hope so, I don't want to see two world champions at the back again, especially with Manor getting Merc engines and technical assistance from them and Williams.

[Cold Fussion]

Honda also said they would be winning races in the back half of 2015 so we can take their predictions with more than a few grains of salt.

[damager21]

This last week has suggested things seem to be looking up for McLaren. Jenson is retained so their driver lineup is the same for the first time since 2012, Chandron is a new/replacing sponsor, Telefonica is looking like becoming their new title sponsor and Honda believe it's 2016 revises will bring McLaren back to the front. I certainly hope so, I don't want to see two world champions at the back again, especially with Manor getting Merc engines and technical assistance from them and Williams.

In fact looking at the treatment which Red Bull is receiving from engine manufacturers, I am very happy with McLaren's decision to switch to Honda even if this year is painful.

They would have never won a world championship with Mercedes as the works team would have always received a better engine. While currently McLaren Honda is 9th in the championship, we all know that their main problem is ERS. With a better ERS, I believe McLaren would have consistently beaten all teams barring Mercedes, Ferrari and Williams. This would have meant an immediate improvement in last years standing from 5th to 4th in the championship.

McLaren is about 0.5 to 1.25 sec behind Lotus, Force India, Toro Rosso and Red Bull. This gap can easily be closed by improving their ERS.

I dont think McLaren Honda will have a strong package to win the championship next year but they could certainly have a good package to end up 3rd.

[ScottB]

It's going to be much more competitive next year all through the field. Manor with Mercedes engines and Haas in cahoots with Ferrari could make it difficult for McLaren.

Imagine if Honda had left it to 2016 to enter! There is a possibility that McLaren could have finished 11th. I think the great all seeing Ron Dennis foreseen this and chose to take the pain this year

McLaren should be able to beat Manor next year but Haas are possibly going to be a solid midfield team.

Or they'd have had another year to fully test and develop their engine. It was Ron who pressured them to come in early...

[superdowg316]

Honda also said they would be winning races in the back half of 2015 so we can take their predictions with more than a few grains of salt.

Honda probably were not expecting how difficult and complex these new power units would be, possibly thinking they were just going to be V6 Turbos like the 80's.

It's going to be much more competitive next year all through the field. Manor with Mercedes engines and Haas in cahoots with Ferrari could make it difficult for McLaren.

Imagine if Honda had left it to 2016 to enter! There is a possibility that McLaren could have finished 11th. I think the great all seeing Ron Dennis foreseen this and chose to take the pain this year

McLaren should be able to beat Manor next year but Haas are possibly going to be a solid midfield team.

Or they'd have had another year to fully test and develop their engine. It was Ron who pressured them to come in early...

There's no telling if Honda would've been better or worse if they had this year to develop and entered next year. In fact, I would say it's been better because they've had a year in full race mode to see what needs to be done to make the car competitive. The only problem has been that the ERS/ICE problem requires a full power unit layout change, which they can't do in-season due to the lack of Tokens. They'll be able to go nuts in the off season and, knowing what they know now, try to work with McLaren to make the chassis and power unit run smoothly and, above all else, be able to recharge and get those lost 160 horses back.

EDIT: At least now that they've had this year, 2016 should be the year they go fast. If not, then notion/argument about them entering in 2015 or 2016 will be irrelevant.

[FW17]

I think the biggest mistake was the MP4-29H

They should have used a different car, either the RA108 DW12 or SF14 and continued to run it every day between November and February even if it snowed at Suzuka

[Andres125sx]

Honda also said they would be winning races in the back half of 2015 so we can take their predictions with more than a few grains of salt.

Difference is they said that without any on-track experience so it was all about their suppositions, while now they have that experience, so they have a lot of real world info about their PU and how it handles compared to their competitors.


IMO People is being way too dramatic. 2015 was a test season anycase, so it really doesn´t matter if they finish 5th or 9th. It only matter because of the money, but that looks like a solved aspect with Honda, Chandon and probably Movistar, so there´s no problem at all.

Perfomance is embarrasing? Sure, but we all know they´re paying the price of entering a new formula with frozen rules that only allow limited development. Kudos for them, it was a very risky bet. In any other racing series they would have solved their problems in first third of the season, but here they´re forced to wait until 2016 because of the rules, so same mistake is highlighted for the whole season, race after race

Not that they´re a bunch of incompetents who can´t solve their problems, only that they´re not allowed to solve it. Next season will be very different, period. If you all are upset with Honda, imagine their attitude inside Honda

They did a huge investment, and it only was worth to ruin Honda´s reputation. They must be climbing the walls waiting for 2016 pre-season, they´d probably pay millions for a time machine to directly jump there

[Alexgtt]

Honda also said they would be winning races in the back half of 2015 so we can take their predictions with more than a few grains of salt.

Difference is they said that without any on-track experience so it was all about their suppositions, while now they have that experience, so they have a lot of real world info about their PU and how it handles compared to their competitors.


IMO People is being way too dramatic. 2015 was a test season anycase, so it really doesn´t matter if they finish 5th or 9th. It only matter because of the money, but that looks like a solved aspect with Honda, Chandon and probably Movistar, so there´s no problem at all.

Perfomance is embarrasing? Sure, but we all know they´re paying the price of entering a new formula with frozen rules that only allow limited development. Kudos for them, it was a very risky bet. In any other racing series they would have solved their problems in first third of the season, but here they´re forced to wait until 2016 because of the rules, so same mistake is highlighted for the whole season, race after race

Not that they´re a bunch of incompetents who can´t solve their problems, only that they´re not allowed to solve it. Next season will be very different, period. If you all are upset with Honda, imagine their attitude inside Honda

They did a huge investment, and it only was worth to ruin Honda´s reputation. They must be climbing the walls waiting for 2016 pre-season, they´d probably pay millions for a time machine to directly jump there

=D> Probably the most sensible post in a long time regarding McLaren-Honda. Fully agree on each point.