Mclaren Honda 2015

[krisfx]

I think the biggest mistake was the MP4-29H

They should have used a different car, either the RA108 DW12 or SF14 and continued to run it every day between November and February even if it snowed at Suzuka

They should use a different car, but not at suzuka. They should go somewhere extremely hot. If they would optimise the engine to work well on hot tracks, they would solve the problems of cooling.

I don't think so. The MP4-29H allowed them to back to back the power unit with an established current unit using an established chassis. It makes more than perfect sense. Obviously the problems with the engine testing still exist, but nothing stopped Honda doing both.

[basti313]

However I still credited the Honda engine with 1.1s of the deficit, I didnt say it was the class of the field but if you put the latest merc engine into the Mclaren I dont think you will gain much more than a second.

This is further supported by the lap time gap between force india, Williams and then Mercedes. who are typically 1.0s+ ahead during qualy.

The problem is, that the Merc engine will just not fit this tiny rear of the McLaren. The big question is how much aero they will loose once they fit a propper engine into their car.

[Andres125sx]

However I still credited the Honda engine with 1.1s of the deficit, I didnt say it was the class of the field but if you put the latest merc engine into the Mclaren I dont think you will gain much more than a second.

So you think the other 1.7 seconds (using your numbers) of the deficit comes from aero? Are you really saying McHonda deficit is more related to aero than PU?

Past season it was 1.7 seconds difference, but the PU with mobil fuel instead of petronas and no qualy mode (and I´ll avoid any conspiracy theory of Mercedes providing a downgraded PU to McLaren) can easily be half of that gap (8.5 tenths)

Now this season let´s imagine aero difference is the same, you get almost 2 seconds due to Honda PU. Even if you assume past season PU was closer to Mercedes unit, let say it was only 5 tenths slower than the official team unit, you still have 1.2 for aero and 1.6 for Honda PU


I can´t see what did you do to get more difference from aero than PU

[drunkf1fan]

It would be nice if discussion about the engine could be had in the Honda _Engine_ thread.
As it is now, it's quite a mess....

We were talking mostly about the team, why I believe it won't be reliable. The state of their testing and why they aren't bringing reliable parts to the track, when decisions have been made to change the layout, decisions to bring in team personnel. Yes they focus primarily around the engine but most of it is about the team, it's decisions and how those decisions have effected the chance of success. It's very much team discussion, not engine.

[turbof1]

It would be nice if discussion about the engine could be had in the Honda _Engine_ thread.
As it is now, it's quite a mess....

Agreed. I'll look into it tomorrow to move the current PU discussion here to the appropiate topic.

[mrluke]

Mclaren Honda average gap from fastest qualy time to fastest Mclaren driver over whole season

2013: 1.359s
2014: 1.590s
2015: 2.786s

At the very most the deficit is 1.4s aero and 1.4s Honda PU.

Mclaren should be taking responsibility for a minimum 50% blame for their poor performance rather than trying to say they have the best chassis on the grid.

[diffuser]

It would be nice if discussion about the engine could be had in the Honda _Engine_ thread.
As it is now, it's quite a mess....

Agreed. I'll look into it tomorrow to move the current PU discussion here to the appropiate topic.

The PU Discussion is very technical. I didn't think this discussion was worthy of that.... but you're the boss.

[diffuser]

I guess we will have to see what Honda will cough up next year. If McLaren continues this size zero concept, Honda will have to deliver proper performance from their small engine, which i think is impossible. A bulkier engine, with a larger turbo will give them on par performance, but Promodeu will alter the chassis to a size two.

http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/66949/ ... del-motore

" We hope to solve the problems of reliability and performance that we had this year - admits Arai - even keeping the current configuration of the power unit. The definition of the project will be established in the winter, but we are already working . "

[Abarth]

Mclaren Honda average gap from fastest qualy time to fastest Mclaren driver over whole season

2013: 1.359s
2014: 1.590s
2015: 2.786s

At the very most the deficit is 1.4s aero and 1.4s Honda PU.

Mclaren should be taking responsibility for a minimum 50% blame for their poor performance rather than trying to say they have the best chassis on the grid.

I wonder how you can come to such a conclusion, just by simply extrapolating.
This is no better than just roll the dice....

[Thunder]

https://twitter.com/ams_formula1/status ... 9066851328 So much for the People saying Honda is so bad they don't even have a clue what to use the remaining 4 Tokens this Season on.......

[bauc]

@Thunders - I think this was not the initial plan, but since the re-design of the turbo can be now done without any tokens spent during the winter period, I guess this has put some other options in motion.

[Andres125sx]

Mclaren Honda average gap from fastest qualy time to fastest Mclaren driver over whole season

2013: 1.359s
2014: 1.590s
2015: 2.786s

At the very most the deficit is 1.4s aero and 1.4s Honda PU.

Same as if I say....

At the very most the deficit is 1.4s PU and 1.4 s because of alignment of Mars and Pluto


Specially when McLaren is using new cars (new aero) each season and three different PU/engines in those three seasons, so you simply can´t know how much difference is related to each component

Add to that even Arai admits most of the deficit is their own fault and your statement is complete nosense

Mclaren should be taking responsibility for a minimum 50% blame for their poor performance rather than trying to say they have the best chassis on the grid.

They never said anything like that, please stop inventing to bash McLaren. Most similar thing they said is their chasis is fourth best on the grid after Mercedes, Red Bull and Toro Rosso. Fourth best for a team like McLaren is not something to be too proud if you ask me, but even so it obviously is better than the PU wich is the last in the grid

[Vasconia]

https://twitter.com/ams_formula1/status ... 9066851328

So much for the People saying Honda is so bad they don't even have a clue what to use the remaining 4 Tokens this Season on.......

The can only try to check new pieces in order to see if they solve(only partially) their problems . And consecuently to secure that they can be used in the future PU.

[Thunder]

Only Alonso gets the updated Engine as Honda couldn't make enough Parts for 2 Engines and Fernandos Engine has more miles than Jensons.

http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.p ... so-penalty

[bauc]

Only Alonso gets the updated Engine as Honda couldn't make enough Parts for 2 Engines and Fernandos Engine has more miles than Jensons.

http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.p ... so-penalty

So his GP2 scream did had a effect after all