2013 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

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Mika1
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Re: 2013 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

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beelsebob wrote:
AnthonyG wrote:
Is he driving with a watch on his wrist or is that just a print?
Haha, weird... My guess would be that that's a rolex advert, but I don't know for sure.
It's an advert indeed. By the way, Hamilton did a fantastic job, don't understand the negativism here.
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donskar
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Re: 2013 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

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Alonso makes the best of it to BBC:

"This is a very positive weekend," Alonso said. "No doubt we were a little bit lost in Nuburgring and Silverstone.

"Here we are a little happier, especially as we were worried we would not be competitive at all."

He said he has "a chance to beat Vettel."
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

LionKing
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Re: 2013 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

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So far Mercedes got all of the dry weather poles. Vettel's 3 poles were in wet conditions if I recall correctly.

but hopefully tomorrow RBR will be better car in the race. But I suspect it will be Lotus as was in the last race.

sennafan24
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Re: 2013 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

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Kravitz was saying that he thinks Reb Bull have caught up to Lotus on lack of Tyre Degradation. I hope that is not true, I would love Kimi to at least run Seb close this year, who wants to see a one sided Championship?

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godlameroso
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Re: 2013 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

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I hope Grosjean does what he did to Vettel in Race of Champions...spank him.

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GrizzleBoy
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Re: 2013 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

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Comparison of 2012 pole vs 2013 pole....and some "interesting" reactions from the mechanics/engineers at the end :mrgreen:



A couple things stand out.

-Lewis' downshifts are so much slower compared to how he used to drive in the McLaren. His McLaren downshifts are like machine gun rounds compared to the Merc downshifts. This has been true for all races this year which ties in with the "not 100% where he wants to be in the braking zones" talk.

-Even though Lewis arrives at the 50m board for turn 1 earlier and at what seems to be much higher speed in the 2012 pole (again with machine gun downshifts, vs the 2013 old granddad downshifts), the 2013 pole lap already makes up for it before they even get to turn 2.

-Gears seem shorter in 2012. Also helped by DRS.

-The 2012 lap looks faster to look at on its own, better balanced (due to the way he can get the nose in how he wants) but seems much more on edge. Interesting considering they had DRS the whole lap and could therefore add more rear wing to compensate for the fact that they could open it up on the straights. Despite the edginess of the car he still seems much more confident in pushing it.

-The 2013 lap looks slower to watch on its own (in terms of racing line/apex etc), seems very lazy on the front end, but also seems less unpredictable on the whole.

I guess as Red Bulls philosophy implies, faster in the corners (2013 rubber) is better than faster on the straights (2012 DRS use in quali). And probably some other stuff I'm ignoring.
Last edited by GrizzleBoy on 28 Jul 2013, 00:15, edited 2 times in total.

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AnthonyG
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Re: 2013 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

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Perhaps the downshifts are slower to save the tyres more?
Thank you really doesn't really describe enough what I feel. - Vettel

sennafan24
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Re: 2013 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

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Grizzleboy?

Which lap would you say is more impressive from a driving standpoint, 2012 or 2013?

GrizzleBoy
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Joined: 05 Mar 2012, 04:06

Re: 2013 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

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Watching the 2012 lap seems more impressive to me, simply because he looks in total control of his machinery. Even when it seems he isn't.

And the entry/exit lines are just clearly better from a 'nailed it' point of view.

sennafan24
sennafan24
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Re: 2013 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

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GrizzleBoy wrote:Watching the 2012 lap seems more impressive to me, simply because he looks in total control of his machinery. Even when it seems he isn't.

And the entry/exit lines are just clearly better from a 'nailed it' point of view.
Fair play, thanks for the insight =D>

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SectorOne
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Re: 2013 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

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Shows how different the cars are,
Mclaren super strong front end, Mercedes super strong in the rear.

You can see in the Merc he´s not worried at all about entry-oversteer.
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rifrafs2kees
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Re: 2013 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

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Juzh wrote:Pole lap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrPhV5pRDK0

He clearly missed apexes on numerous corners and that is not the fastest way around the track no matter how you spin it. He is fast, no doubt about it, but why do people praise this lap as some kind of miracle is beyond me. If you want to see real fast lap around hungaroring you should check 2010 pole, much more impressive than this.
People think it's a great lap because it just is. Unless the vast majority of us duped ourselves into thinking the red bull was the stronger car going into quali this weekend. Race car drivers aren't computerized robots...for them everything hinges on feel....and that imposes limitations on how much time one can spend on the absolute limit of static friction..and on the rare occasion, the fringes of kinetic friction. A computer can better approach this limit due to its sheer processing power but even then ABS systems, which have been in existence for decades, criss cross this fine line as frequently as possible to achieve some semblance of riding the limit because riding the limit is practically impossible. So the idea that a driver stays on the absolute limit(combined max of linear, rotational and angular accelerations....all these being a dissection of available traction) for a considerable amount of time let alone for the whole delta time it takes to position the car for the apex, mug it and exit is a myth. Sometimes one clips the apex at the expense of acceleration or vice versa. Some tracks by the nature of their turns reward speed over line precision. Hungary is just one such track as many of the turns on this track have little fluidity to them, coupled with attitude changes, and as such being overly concerned with hitting apexs very often can be slower considering the limitations of our mental reserves and motor skills(if you don't believe me, watch Senna's the pole laps..many weren't spatially perfect but rather, he concerned himself with his strength..which was criss crossing the limits of adhesion more so than his competitors could and so people often got the feeling he would crash any moment). On a track like monaco where precision is more important, you see people very often hit the apexes and they are rewarded because if you find yourself not well position for the next turn, you have to send the car into a combination of accelerations that is impossible to achieve. Ever wondered why some tracks don't bring much differences in laps times even when the drivers are obviously using different lines? yet those same drivers stick to a rigid line on another track?

So it's all about how one uses space and time. If a guy misses the apex by 2 inches, it's not necessarily over because because we don't know how high a speed others maintain through that spot.

And I might hypothesize the following. Ever wondered why jenson button and hamilton both said they want similar things in a car yet they drive so differently? Mr Button, whether due to his natural ability or through training, is more acutely aware of car position so in trying to arrive at just the perfect point and direction he desires, any car behaviour that isn't predictable or linear throws him off. So then we hear such things as too much understeer..oversteer..little grip. He is not making excuses. What he is trying to do on the track simply requires very predictable car behaviour. When this is bang on then he becomes unbeatable because his lap time doesn't come from zigzagging across the limit, a trait that has the inherent disadvantage of consuming tire life. Subsequently, he is able to maintain fast laps for longer periods. On the other hand, hamilton has a bias for higher speed through a corner which consequently means many more moments over the limit...so then you see things like momentary opposite lock and slides. Brazil of 2012 is a good example. Before we consider what happened one must take into account that the ratio of static friction to kinetic friction varies with track and tire conditions. This is easily intuitive in the sense that a slide in the dry is easily arrested whereas one in the wet has a higher potential for doom...Back to brazil .The track gets some drizzle and he starts twitching all over the place because ability to cool it down a tad bit in order to stay on the desired course is one he doesn't have. And so button was quicker in that phase because the ratio of static to kinetic friction available was much higher(combination of wet track and wrong tires) so every slide is amplified and he suffers. You throw in the new intermediates or wets and then usual balance between kinetic and static friction is once again a reality and then hamilton is fast again.

So apexes aren't everything and speed isn't either...It's the sum of both that matter. For humans, maximizing one ends up hurting the other

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raymondu999
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Re: 2013 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

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About dirty/clean side, I was also harping on about that in past years, but it seems that since last year they've been cleaning the circuit. Dirty and clean sides were pretty much even last year.
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SilverArrow
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Re: 2013 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

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Well that was fun to watch - haven't felt that way in a while. Raw talent shines through.

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raymondu999
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Re: 2013 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

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