Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Actually they have the same sounds as ICE cars have. They use straight cut gears, same as ICE racecars, so that is what you hear.
so there's no noise from those (electromagnetic) forces cycling hundreds of times a second ?
@mzso and btw for my convenience ...
the energy cost of transporting electricity (before any charging/discharging batteries) is 10% and rising (Ohm's law)
the energy cost of transporting the conventional ICE fuel is 0.2 - 0.5 % (common sense)
in appealing to the FIA we might consider that 'they' have improved F1 ICE efficiency from 29% to 52% in 10 years
(most of this 52% can be retained with NA V10s (Atkinson-ed, recovery turbine-ed, of course)
Last edited by Tommy Cookers on 23 Jul 2025, 12:19, edited 4 times in total.
Electric cars sound absolutely god awful, to the point it doesn't matter how quickly they accelerate. They evoke no emotion other than irritation at their high pitched whining noises, no wonder people that are interested in cars chose to stick with models equipped with good sounding combustion engines.
Actually they have the same sounds as ICE cars have. They use straight cut gears, same as ICE racecars, so that is what you hear. But also the sound the tires and the parts scraping the tarmac, or barriers when that happens.
I actually found it refreshing in 2014 when I first heard F1 cars' tires screeching or hearing the cars bottoming out, scraping the tarmac. It's as if someone unmuted those things.
This. Exactly this.
Imagine arguing in favour of wasting energy and causing damage to the hearing of anyone not wearing industrial grade hearing protection in the name of “entertainment”.
"From success, you learn absolutely nothing. From failure and setbacks, conclusions can be drawn." - Niki Lauda
I still don't understand why so many people here want F1 to be more electric, just go watch Formula E, there's everything you want.
I could just as easily say, you should go watch classic GP racing. And it would make a lot more sense. Since your desire is to experience more primitive technologies.
If F1 goes backwards to pure NA V10/V8 it should be renamed. To Formula Nostalgia, and give the F1 name to FE or something.
Plus Classic GP Racing tickets are cheaper and they’d get to see all different eras too.
"From success, you learn absolutely nothing. From failure and setbacks, conclusions can be drawn." - Niki Lauda
Entertainment, just like going to rock concert listening to loud speakers instead of headphones
The same reason why consumers are willing to spend hundreds of thousand on ICE supercar or million on hypercars, with loud engine. Its the noise that create the thrill, not so much about power like EV motors.
So not F1 fans, not technology enthusiats, not racing fans...
If you need sound for entertainmainent, you can listen to some good metal music while watching F1. It's way better than engine noise.
They're willing to spend money is because they're rich. And rich people buy expensive stuff, so they can feel superiors.
Also, fashion: If one monkey sees the other doing something, he will want to do the same.
F1 circus is all about noise, entertainment and everything that is over the top. Private jets, champagne parties, Monaco residency, billionaire team principal, Hollywood celebrities, supercars, hypercars, superyacht etc. Unfortunately, F1 does have that elitist appeal that attract fans to the sports. Without all the whistles and bells, F1 will not become a global sport event.
EV cars are like commodities, while a good V10 power car is a masterpiece, which will forever be relevent to enthusiast and collectors. Technologies behind F1 V10 engine are actually very advanced. They are compact, lightweight, fuel economical, high rev, powerful, durable, LOUD and it doesn't require sound engineers to mix engine noise for TV audience.
This dude has got a good point.
Why not run a V10 engine using sustainable fuel?
F1 circus is all about noise, entertainment and everything that is over the top. Private jets, champagne parties, Monaco residency, billionaire team principal, Hollywood celebrities, supercars, hypercars, superyacht etc. Unfortunately, F1 does have that elitist appeal that attract fans to the sports. Without all the whistles and bells, F1 will not become a global sport event.
You just successfully argued that the sound is insignificant. Amongst all that shallow stuff sound is not a notable factor.
Also reinforced by the fact that we have this dull hum as the F1 sound for the twelfth year now. F1 only got more popular.
EV cars are like commodities, while a good V10 power car is a masterpiece, which will forever be relevent to enthusiast and collectors. Technologies behind F1 V10 engine are actually very advanced. They are compact, lightweight, fuel economical, high rev, powerful, durable, LOUD and it doesn't require sound engineers to mix engine noise for TV audience.
This just a silly projection and generalization of your bias. But I agree, true "enthusiasts" of specifically clunky outmoded technology, will forever be amused by said clunky technology.
Your imagination of the V10 is just plain wrong. F1 V10s are rather large, heavy, very inefficient, and anything but durable. The number of cylinders negatively reinforces each point. Atop of this rpm is a murder on longevity and efficiency
And the current hybrid turbos have way better torque and power delivery.
I really grew tired of the "road relevance" regs once they did their job of attracting the manufacturers. It's all played out now.
I dont know what you're defining as 'road relevance regs', as this was an effort that spanned multiple decades and many different regulation eras. And as we saw, you couldn't 'lock in' any manufacturers longer term, as they would and could leave as they saw fit. You cant just bait them in and then switch up things and expect them to stay.
It's also not 'played out now'. The '26 regs were quite clearly successful in bringing in interest and participation.
The problem is ever that 'road relevance' is more a perceptual thing than anything that has to be real. Car manufacturers dont want to jump into an ultra expensive sport like F1 while pushing what is seen by much of the public as 'outdated' technology(aka pure ICE powertrains). It required a serious commitment to hybrid technology to get them onboard with the new regs.
And to be clear, I do like your suggestion, ignorant as I am about its actual feasibility. I truly think that F1 has lost something significant with the lackluster noise and volume of these modern hybrid setups.
When you talk about attravting manufactuers, You cannot isolate the 2026 engine regs without looking at the wider picture. The atrention and stock of F1 had risen dramatically since Netflix's drive to survive and the new budget cap. Audi for example was already doing MGUH in its Leman cars. I don't think the engine regs was the only factor in attracting them. For Chevy... Well.. It was other factors as well.
Calling the internal combustion engine a primitive technology is incredibly ignorant considering they are infinitely more complex than electric motors.
Gotta love reading the same backwards technology "argument", while praising an invention from 1821 over and over on a technical forum.
Agreed. I'm not saying electric motors are not complex, because the math behind is extremely complex, but what we saw during these hybrid regs was an extremely fast pleateau (like maybe two to three years?) of the electric side of things, till it no longer became of any interest to the fans. The electric is already inherenty efficiant so pleateau is bascallly there.. And baterry regs are limiting on weight and capacity.
The engines have more emotion and mystique about them.
Bring back the natural aspirated V10 with synthetic fuels.. TJI+port injection. Variable geometries.. and hybrid.. And we will be having a whale of a time!
F1 circus is all about noise, entertainment and everything that is over the top. Private jets, champagne parties, Monaco residency, billionaire team principal, Hollywood celebrities, supercars, hypercars, superyacht etc. Unfortunately, F1 does have that elitist appeal that attract fans to the sports. Without all the whistles and bells, F1 will not become a global sport event.
You just successfully argued that the sound is insignificant. Amongst all that shallow stuff sound is not a notable factor.
Also reinforced by the fact that we have this dull hum as the F1 sound for the twelfth year now. F1 only got more popular.
EV cars are like commodities, while a good V10 power car is a masterpiece, which will forever be relevent to enthusiast and collectors. Technologies behind F1 V10 engine are actually very advanced. They are compact, lightweight, fuel economical, high rev, powerful, durable, LOUD and it doesn't require sound engineers to mix engine noise for TV audience.
This just a silly projection and generalization of your bias. But I agree, true "enthusiasts" of specifically clunky outmoded technology, will forever be amused by said clunky technology.
Your imagination of the V10 is just plain wrong. F1 V10s are rather large, heavy, very inefficient, and anything but durable. The number of cylinders negatively reinforces each point. Atop of this rpm is a murder on longevity and efficiency
And the current hybrid turbos have way better torque and power delivery.
Bring back the natural aspirated V10 with synthetic fuels.. TJI+port injection. Variable geometries.. and hybrid.. And we will be having a whale of a time!
A big fat slugghish whale.
Last edited by mzso on 24 Jul 2025, 16:34, edited 1 time in total.
You were saying V10 engine has too many cylinders and V6 is better. I am saying Formula E has no cylinders,
So it must be better based on the same reasoning.
You were saying V10 engine has too many cylinders and V6 is better. I am saying Formula E has no cylinders,
So it must be better based on the same reasoning.
You really want to drag out this foolish angle...
I see no reason to "try to beat that"...
I have to agree to that. The 19,000rpm V10 is truly amazing.
From the starting line, when the lights turn green, spectators can literally hear them from every corners of the track.
I actually found it refreshing in 2014 when I first heard F1 cars' tires screeching or hearing the cars bottoming out, scraping the tarmac. It's as if someone unmuted those things.
Percentages were not in a vacuum, they were based on EV cars compared to equivalent ICE cars.
Which you offered because you, the EVismist, don't understand how an electric motors work, and later conflated a motor with an entire vehicle as though this helps your efforts here. But it was fun to see the Facts and Science guy get incensed over a true statement such as, "electric motors do not convert chemical energy into kinetic energy." Of all the forums, of all the threads, to feel capable of posting in... you choose these, lol.
Of all the things to find a sense of piety in your life about, you two chose... electronics.
Aside from the Chinese EV companies, I think most automotive companies around the world will still prefer to make ICE relevant IF they can do that and meet their climate sustainability goal.
There are many good reasons for that.
1) ICE vehicle create more jobs for the automotive industry
2) EV cars have lower barrier of entry which make it harder for companies to stay profitable. Even the Chinese EV companies are struggling and their suppliers are facing cashflow issues.
3) EV performance limitation is all down to battery technology and battery companies. Which mean you dont need so many auto engineers, mostly computer programmers to develop UI for in-car entertainment.
The main downside of ICE is carbon emission and sustainability. And if F1 can help overcome this and make ICE become sustainable, then I am guessing many automotive companies, especially those high performance offering, will want to be part of it.
Here is a quote from LH,
Within F1, there is no question that some people agree. Lewis Hamilton said at the Chinese Grand Prix last weekend: "It is no secret that the V6 has never sounded great.
"I remember the first time I came to an F1 race in 1996 in Spa and arriving and Michael (Schumacher) coming through Turn One and my rib cage just vibrated. I was so hooked. It was the most amazing thing I felt and heard.
"Over the years we've lost that. If we are able to move back to those amazing sounding engines and still able to see the sustainable goals, why not?"
Bravo.