European GP 2009 - Valencia

[Richard]

First off, the BBC commentators absolutely sucked in the worse manner.

I wouldn't say they are the worst. Just try Spanish TV and listen to the hysteria when Alonso comes into the picture. The worst coverage I experienced was watching the 95 German GP when in a room full of Germans in a hotel in Austria. As I recall, they used local producers for each track in those days? My memory is that all we saw was lap after lap after lap after lap of Schumacher with no sight nor mention of anyone else. The wiki write up makes it seem quite an interesting race http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_German_Grand_Prix

The BBC do have an alternative channel with radio 5 commentary. It's much more level headed and the guys talk about the technical aspects. I do tend to listen to the radio commentary when watching any sport on TV.

[Scotracer]

Well, yes. Then the question is:

How can you, with such high-tech cars, excellent drivers and a track well designed (I insist, under the circumstances) produce such uncompetitive races?

My answer has always been this: the cars are over-designed.

Conclusion: the downforce is excessive.

Corollary (after watching this season results): Formula One is a race of cars, not one of drivers. It's like horse racing: the winner is the horse, not the jockey!

I fear your conclusion is attributing false causation. Downforce, in itself, should not restrict overtaking - it is the way it is produced that does it. The cars are deliberately made aerodynamically inefficient to curb straight-line speeds and I fear that's having a knock-on effect.

[ISLAMATRON]

Funny how all the hami-haters and bari fans praise barri's effort.
Okay the man drove a good race but he got the win handed by mclaren's fault, not because of own strength. Anyone who doesn't see that is plain dumb. Hami had 4.2sec of a gap and was increasing it. He lost 4-5seconds in the pits (13.4sec pitstop) and was regaining time (6.7=>4.7sec) after the 2nd stop even before barri lifted the pace(4.7 => 2.3sec).

It's as clear as it can be. I'm utterly disappointed in Whitmarsh who has proven to be a bad loser and was blaming the pace of the car for losing the race. [-X

Fact is: F1 is always linked to luck, and on sunday it was on barri's side.

Fact is that both Rubens and Lewis drove excellent races, as did Kimi (though it's difficult to compare since he doesn't have a "real" team-mate at the moment - perhaps Massa would have been able to fight for the win?). Lewis was unlucky this time, but it doesn't mean you can't praise Rubens for one of his best drives of his career. Second place is damned good anyway for Lewis and McLaren, considering how dead slow they were only a few races ago. They've made fantastic progress this season - far more impressive than Alonso/Renault's of last season.

For sure there is a big luck element in F1 as in most sports, but luck has a tendency of evening out over time. For example Lewis was lucky to win the championship in 2008 but unlucky to lose it in 2007. Luck is part of the thrill of sports, if the best man always won it would be rather boring to watch.

Excellent post, for sure an excellent drive by Rubens... but Lewis was not lucky to win the WDC in 2008, he won it despite every effort by the stewards to hand it to Massa... after he won SPA and then dominated China the championship was over... and Lewis owned it.

[Miguel]

Excellent post, for sure an excellent drive by Rubens... but Lewis was not lucky to win the WDC in 2008, he won it despite every effort by the stewards to hand it to Massa... after he won SPA and then dominated China the championship was over... and Lewis owned it.

He was lucky in Monaco when he "just" broke his rear right and then the safety car neutralised most of the disadvantage involved. He was also lucky in Hungary when Massa's engine blew up with 3 laps to go. He was lucky to be in the best car in wet conditions in one of the wettest summers in Europe and he was lucky to be in the second best car in dry conditions.

[ISLAMATRON]

Excellent post, for sure an excellent drive by Rubens... but Lewis was not lucky to win the WDC in 2008, he won it despite every effort by the stewards to hand it to Massa... after he won SPA and then dominated China the championship was over... and Lewis owned it.

He was lucky in Monaco when he "just" broke his rear right and then the safety car neutralised most of the disadvantage involved. He was also lucky in Hungary when Massa's engine blew up with 3 laps to go. He was lucky to be in the best car in wet conditions in one of the wettest summers in Europe and he was lucky to be in the second best car in dry conditions.

Kinda makes you think he was destined for the WDC, regardless what the spineless lapdog stewards tried to install. He wasn't that Lucky in Hungary when his tire blew, handing Heikki the lucky win. The timing of the SC in Monaco(the 2nd SC), Canada & Germany were unlucky for him. That Malaysian penalty was unlucky, although maybe deserved, Bad luck on the Bahrain start too with that computer glitch. All things considered I think it would be foolish to call it a "lucky" WDC... have we ever really seen one of those?

[mx_tifoso]

Rubens has turned up dressed as a '90s house DJ again.

BREAKING NEWS: Badoer thinks he's at Fiorano and is making up his own corners.

I laughed insanely at this and other retarded things they have on their page.

It's dissapointing to hear that it was an exciting race, as I wasn't able to watch it fully. I partied like it was the end of the world, or in reality my last day in that beloved city, and got home at around seven in the morning, just barely able to catch the last laps and log on to F1Tech. But I was falling asleep and did'n't really watch or post anything, much to your guy's luck (I was quite drunk ).

[Roland Ehnström]

Funny how all the hami-haters and bari fans praise barri's effort.
Okay the man drove a good race but he got the win handed by mclaren's fault, not because of own strength. Anyone who doesn't see that is plain dumb. Hami had 4.2sec of a gap and was increasing it. He lost 4-5seconds in the pits (13.4sec pitstop) and was regaining time (6.7=>4.7sec) after the 2nd stop even before barri lifted the pace(4.7 => 2.3sec).

It's as clear as it can be. I'm utterly disappointed in Whitmarsh who has proven to be a bad loser and was blaming the pace of the car for losing the race. [-X

Fact is: F1 is always linked to luck, and on sunday it was on barri's side.

Fact is that both Rubens and Lewis drove excellent races, as did Kimi (though it's difficult to compare since he doesn't have a "real" team-mate at the moment - perhaps Massa would have been able to fight for the win?). Lewis was unlucky this time, but it doesn't mean you can't praise Rubens for one of his best drives of his career. Second place is damned good anyway for Lewis and McLaren, considering how dead slow they were only a few races ago. They've made fantastic progress this season - far more impressive than Alonso/Renault's of last season.

For sure there is a big luck element in F1 as in most sports, but luck has a tendency of evening out over time. For example Lewis was lucky to win the championship in 2008 but unlucky to lose it in 2007. Luck is part of the thrill of sports, if the best man always won it would be rather boring to watch.

Excellent post, for sure an excellent drive by Rubens... but Lewis was not lucky to win the WDC in 2008, he won it despite every effort by the stewards to hand it to Massa... after he won SPA and then dominated China the championship was over... and Lewis owned it.

Thanks for the compliment! But don't get me wrong, I don't mean that Lewis' WDC in 2008 was pure luck, on the contrary I, like you, feel that it was divine justice that he finally won despite the efforts of the stewards to ruin his chances (I was gutted after Spa). What I mean is that Lewis needed some luck to win despite all the bad things that happened to him during the season. In short, a lucky win can still very much be a deserved win.

[Ray]

And I can agree with Ray, I cannot stand Hamilton's dad, why is he there? He wont have any impact on the race at all, we havent seen John Button for a few races now, well not on TV, yet at every race we see Mr. Hamilton stood there salking.

I don't understand why everyone is bitter about some drivers (Lewis, Massa, Button, etc.) having their dads in pit-lane. Why does that matter? If my son was in F1 I sure as hell would like to stand right there in the pit box shouting for him! And if I was racing myself I would also be happy to have my dad watching me, along with my wife or girlfriend. Especially considering that what I would be doing would be very risky, and if something bad were to happen to me I would like to have my loved ones there beside me.

Do you guys all hate your dads, or what?

As for the producer choosing to show the dads/wives/girfriends faces in TV every race, well, that's hardly their fault, is it? What do you expect them to do, kick the cameraman in the balls? Sue the producer?


Stop complaining about stupid things, you just come across as jealous because you don't have a dad that cares and a wife/girlfriend that approves of your job!

Rant over, I'll shut up now.

Great drive from Rubens by the way! =D>

Because Lewis is racing on the track for a win. Not his dad. He has no place on television with his fake serious look on his face shaking his head about a pit stop mistake. Neither does Hamiltons dumbass girlfriend. She has no business on TV either, she's not racing, not a team member, and not important. I want to watch a race, not idiots in pit lane. The difference is I don't mind them cheering or standing in the garage I wholeheartedly encourage family participation in F1, but I want to see the race. Not Anthony Hamilton and his shitty attitude and his false accusations while I pay to watch this sport. I don't know about you but I pay for the Speed Channel so that I can watch the race. I want to see the cars, the mechanics, and the racing. Not some stupid man with a sulking look on his face all the time, or a fake girlfriend hiding her flaws with an excessive amount of makeup on acting like she knows what's going on and crying fake tears.

I don't hate my dad and he is very proud of my job thankyouverymuch.

[Roland Ehnström]

And I can agree with Ray, I cannot stand Hamilton's dad, why is he there? He wont have any impact on the race at all, we havent seen John Button for a few races now, well not on TV, yet at every race we see Mr. Hamilton stood there salking.

I don't understand why everyone is bitter about some drivers (Lewis, Massa, Button, etc.) having their dads in pit-lane. Why does that matter? If my son was in F1 I sure as hell would like to stand right there in the pit box shouting for him! And if I was racing myself I would also be happy to have my dad watching me, along with my wife or girlfriend. Especially considering that what I would be doing would be very risky, and if something bad were to happen to me I would like to have my loved ones there beside me.

Do you guys all hate your dads, or what?

As for the producer choosing to show the dads/wives/girfriends faces in TV every race, well, that's hardly their fault, is it? What do you expect them to do, kick the cameraman in the balls? Sue the producer?


Stop complaining about stupid things, you just come across as jealous because you don't have a dad that cares and a wife/girlfriend that approves of your job!

Rant over, I'll shut up now.

Great drive from Rubens by the way! =D>

Because Lewis is racing on the track for a win. Not his dad. He has no place on television with his fake serious look on his face shaking his head about a pit stop mistake. Neither does Hamiltons dumbass girlfriend. She has no business on TV either, she's not racing, not a team member, and not important. I want to watch a race, not idiots in pit lane. The difference is I don't mind them cheering or standing in the garage I wholeheartedly encourage family participation in F1, but I want to see the race. Not Anthony Hamilton and his shitty attitude and his false accusations while I pay to watch this sport. I don't know about you but I pay for the Speed Channel so that I can watch the race. I want to see the cars, the mechanics, and the racing. Not some stupid man with a sulking look on his face all the time, or a fake girlfriend hiding her flaws with an excessive amount of makeup on acting like she knows what's going on and crying fake tears.

I don't hate my dad and he is very proud of my job thankyouverymuch.

All right, but shouldn't you then direct your anger at the TV producer, rather than at certain drivers' dads/girlfriends/wives? It's not their fault they ruin the show for you, is it?

[Roland Ehnström]

Edit: Never mind.

(How do you delete a post on this board?)

[mx_tifoso]

Edit: Never mind.

(How do you delete a post on this board?)

When a post has been viewed by others at least once, the option to delete said post is gone. At that point the only option is to edit it, or call upon the forum moderators to remove it for you.

If you want, just report you own post and make it clear that you just want it to be removed. Be careful with that though.

[nudger]

A lap or 2 longer and do what? run out of fuel?

anyways, these discussions should be made in the race thread, not in the MP4/24 development thread.

rubens had 4 laps more than lewis...he was holding the gap to him...there is no way for lewis to get out infront of rubens whenever he stopped. rubens stopped early because he had more than enough gap and secured his place against a safety car. mclaren were outpaced.

[ISLAMATRON]

A lap or 2 longer and do what? run out of fuel?

anyways, these discussions should be made in the race thread, not in the MP4/24 development thread.

rubens had 4 laps more than lewis...he was holding the gap to him...there is no way for lewis to get out infront of rubens whenever he stopped. rubens stopped early because he had more than enough gap and secured his place against a safety car. mclaren were outpaced.

Rubens told you he had 4 more laps of fuel than Lewis told you he had? Very interesting

check how much longer LH's first pit stop was than Rubens' and tell much fuel the time difference would be worth.

[Ciro Pabón]

I moved here some posts that were in the MP-24 thread but talked about the race. Pleeze, no more personal comments, everybody can rant about the race (or about moderators ) but not about forum members.

[PlatinumZealot]

Lewis also turned down the pace when his tyres were overheating, according to the engineers. So Barichello got some time there.

I also think Lewis could have posed an overtaking threat on Barichello if everything worked out, but that is the other problem right there, overtaking a man like Barichello.


On the whole Pappa Hamilton and Nicole taking up video time; I like seeing other people in the pits. Mechanics, engineers, family,Celebrities etc. Formula 1 is so boring nowadays I welcome it.