2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
User avatar
organic
1010
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post



RB doing a 2023 tyre test with pirelli this/next week. Hopefully the front tyres are stronger

User avatar
chrisc90
41
Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

organic wrote:
05 Sep 2022, 18:49


RB doing a 2023 tyre test with pirelli this/next week. Hopefully the front tyres are stronger

Should give them a little advantage on car setup

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
341
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Maybe this is part of why they have Perez using a different floor? So they could test 2023 floor ideas w/ 2023 tires...

User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

A Porsche Honda deal would not be infeasible. The NSX is a low production niche vehicle that is not essential to Honda operations. Honda do not make a compact luxury SUV like the Macan. A partnership would be unusual but it would not cannibalize sales since they have little to no market overlap. The only issue would potentially be a marketing or brand confusion. Enthusiasts are fond of both companies and only a fraction would take issue with a potential road car collaboration--while most would enjoy the prospect. A base model 911 with a Honda I4 engine would sell like hotcakes. A mid engine Civic or Fit with a Porsche flat six, the same.
𓄀

PierreW
PierreW
0
Joined: 06 Sep 2022, 17:58

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Is the heavily rumored lightweight chassis still schedulded to be introduced this season or is this postponed following Max and Red Bull advantages in both championship? There are still two windows where it could theorically be introduced, in Singapore or in the United States.


Regarding the Porsche situation, I have always thought that an "almost deal" that takes forever to conclude usually fell through. The Red Bull Racing team seem to value their independance and their self gestion and righfully in my opinion. I fear that Porsche would be too controlling as an entity to work well with the people already in places. I could be wrong but RBR has issued statements that are laying out a potential failure in the talks due to theses points specifically.

A new partnership with Honda would be more welcome in my opinion, because the team has had a great relationship with the engine maker and it worked as a symbiosis. The only question would be, what to do with Red Bull power trains and all the talents poached on the market? I doubt that Honda can collaborate regarding the engine, the culture work and the know-how is in Japan, and they would want their engineers to built fully the motor.

I know that Red Bull Powertrain has powered their first ever motor recently. But I wonder how far they are to be able to develop a competitive F1 engine and if the whole program can be cancelled to welcome back Honda.

User avatar
etusch
131
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
Location: Turkey

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

vorticism wrote:
06 Sep 2022, 15:44
A Porsche Honda deal would not be infeasible. The NSX is a low production niche vehicle that is not essential to Honda operations. Honda do not make a compact luxury SUV like the Macan. A partnership would be unusual but it would not cannibalize sales since they have little to no market overlap. The only issue would potentially be a marketing or brand confusion. Enthusiasts are fond of both companies and only a fraction would take issue with a potential road car collaboration--while most would enjoy the prospect. A base model 911 with a Honda I4 engine would sell like hotcakes. A mid engine Civic or Fit with a Porsche flat six, the same.
Honda is the last company which will use another one's engine. And there is not any honda fun who will buy a Honda with another brand's engine.
There can be another manufacturer which build their car better than honda but. when it comes to engine and transmission it is hardly possible

User avatar
chrisc90
41
Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

PierreW wrote:
06 Sep 2022, 18:20
Is the heavily rumored lightweight chassis still schedulded to be introduced this season or is this postponed following Max and Red Bull advantages in both championship? There are still two windows where it could theorically be introduced, in Singapore or in the United States.
I dont see why they wouldnt introduce it at any point remaining in the season. If they have a extra handful of races to see how it reacts etc then its advantage at the start of the '23 season.

AR3-GP wrote:
05 Sep 2022, 20:22
Maybe this is part of why they have Perez using a different floor? So they could test 2023 floor ideas w/ 2023 tires...

I'm sure you can only run parts that have previously been run on the car. So unless RB have ran a '23spec floor with the raised edges etc then they wont be able to do it at testing of tyres.

User avatar
organic
1010
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

With previous updates it's said they introduce them as previous components get worn out from use. Perhaps they'll deploy the rumoured lighter chassis once the current chassis has driven its expected lifetime, provided the lighter chassis has passed the crash tests by then.

That said, my expectation is that the new chassis will come for Singapore as that is on paper the weakest track for the RB18.

User avatar
ispano6
143
Joined: 09 Mar 2017, 23:56
Location: my playseat

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

vorticism wrote:
06 Sep 2022, 15:44
A Porsche Honda deal would not be infeasible. The NSX is a low production niche vehicle that is not essential to Honda operations. Honda do not make a compact luxury SUV like the Macan.
NSX is already discontinued. Honda does have the Acura brand in two of the largest markets North America and China, and do have the RDX and MDX, with the revived ZDX coming out in the next few years. But in general a Honda Porsche partnership doesn't really seem feasible, that is unless Porsche is on the car similar to how Aston Martin was.

User avatar
continuum16
49
Joined: 30 Nov 2015, 17:35
Location: Kansas

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

etusch wrote:
06 Sep 2022, 18:35
vorticism wrote:
06 Sep 2022, 15:44
A Porsche Honda deal would not be infeasible. The NSX is a low production niche vehicle that is not essential to Honda operations. Honda do not make a compact luxury SUV like the Macan. A partnership would be unusual but it would not cannibalize sales since they have little to no market overlap. The only issue would potentially be a marketing or brand confusion. Enthusiasts are fond of both companies and only a fraction would take issue with a potential road car collaboration--while most would enjoy the prospect. A base model 911 with a Honda I4 engine would sell like hotcakes. A mid engine Civic or Fit with a Porsche flat six, the same.
Honda is the last company which will use another one's engine. And there is not any honda fun who will buy a Honda with another brand's engine.
There can be another manufacturer which build their car better than honda but. when it comes to engine and transmission it is hardly possible
In the past yes, but Honda is starting to do more and more collaborations. For example may of their new EVs will be built in collaboration with GM. They have also worked on transmissions with other OEMs I believe, although not engines. Not that this has anything to do with RBR, who have had a hard enough time getting one manufacturer on board, let alone two at once.
"You can't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
- Mark Twain

User avatar
ispano6
143
Joined: 09 Mar 2017, 23:56
Location: my playseat

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

continuum16 wrote:
07 Sep 2022, 16:59
In the past yes, but Honda is starting to do more and more collaborations. For example may of their new EVs will be built in collaboration with GM. They have also worked on transmissions with other OEMs I believe, although not engines. Not that this has anything to do with RBR, who have had a hard enough time getting one manufacturer on board, let alone two at once.
Their GM collaboration will be a limited one as part of a technology sharing agreement for the North American market. GM can use Honda's hydrogen fuel-cell technology for development of freight and transport class heavy vehicles while GM's ultium battery platform will be used to power the EVs. Honda also has battery partnerships or joint-ventures with CATL, Hanwa, LG, and Yuasa. The electric motors will be developed by Honda and their JV with Sony will seem them building and developing cars for Asian/European markets. It's not impossible for Honda to have a technology sharing agreement with Porsche, but I really don't see that happening with passenger cars.

Having two manufacturers involved would be too many hands in the cookie-jar and could lead to disarray. But it is interesting who will be at the helm of Red Bull racing when there is a changing of the guard (If Horner retires as well). If the Thai-side of the Red Bull company exert more influence there may be a shake-up in terms of which partners and manufacturers are used. Red Bull could become an "asian" company and Honda may be favored considering their position in Thailand. It would also depend on the PU formula, that being the biggest factor for Honda.

User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

ispano6 wrote:
07 Sep 2022, 16:46
vorticism wrote:
06 Sep 2022, 15:44
A Porsche Honda deal would not be infeasible. The NSX is a low production niche vehicle that is not essential to Honda operations. Honda do not make a compact luxury SUV like the Macan.
NSX is already discontinued. Honda does have the Acura brand in two of the largest markets North America and China, and do have the RDX and MDX, with the revived ZDX coming out in the next few years. But in general a Honda Porsche partnership doesn't really seem feasible, that is unless Porsche is on the car similar to how Aston Martin was.
True. I only suggest some special edition models, regardless; like a 912 revival with parts overnighted from Japan or a Clio V6 like mid engine hatch. Civic Turbo S, hah. The situation would be a fluke and a special edition model might be a way to poke fun at themselves while working with RB. Why didn't Aston Martin do this? They could have had another Cygnet on their hands... Or a Ridgeline with a V12 in the bed. As a luxurified GT or a circuit racer though...

Actually throw all this aside -- why haven't Honda yet made the Transit Super Van equivalent with a Ridgeline & one of the RA V6 engines. That need run up Pikes Peak!
𓄀

rogazilla
rogazilla
6
Joined: 05 Oct 2017, 16:35

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

The out of box thinking would be that as Europe and Porsche becoming more and more EV focused... Honda being a motor company could supply ICE for their product rest of the world where ICE is not banned...

User avatar
chrisc90
41
Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Looks like Porsche deal is fully off. Porsche being greedy wanting equal stake in the team.

Good on RB for not backing down

User avatar
Unc1eM0nty
6
Joined: 01 Feb 2014, 15:18
Location: Yorkshire (Gods own county)

Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

I'd hardly call it greedy, Porsche is an iconic brand, they were going to put a lot of money into this venture so why wouldn't they want to be a "full" partner.

I can also see it from Red Bulls prospective though though, I think it's a real pity this has fallen through, F1 needs brands like this in the sport