2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[f1jcw]

In the Ferrari thread I said that they destroyed the inters in one post and then I said Sainz was clumsy in another. It goes without saying they are not on the pace, but they also don't have their upgrade package that is supposed to right the course until Spain.

I never really get the desire to go into anothers threads and berate them on how well their teams doing, especially if I am a fan of a conquering team. Only felt doing it under exceptional circumstances and the fans of that thread didn't like it being raised. I don't like fans of other teams mocking my team in there own thread so I try and return it

[AR3-GP]

In the Ferrari thread I said that they destroyed the inters in one post and then I said Sainz was clumsy in another. It goes without saying they are not on the pace, but they also don't have their upgrade package that is supposed to right the course until Spain.

I never really get the desire to go into anothers threads and berate them on how well their teams doing, especially if I am a fan of a conquering team. Only felt doing it under exceptional circumstances and the fans of that thread didn't like it being raised. I don't like fans of other teams mocking my team in there own thread so I try and return it

It's a technical forum. The team threads are for posting and discussing what's being said or done by the team.

[Alex_Z]

I don't remember when it happened, but George seems kind of grating these days. To the point where I wouldn't have trusted him to actually give the poace back had he needed to.

Yeah all that posturing on the radio only to be dropped by 11 seconds in 10 laps was embarrassing. I think beating Lewis last year has really inflated his ego. I'm hoping Lewis can lay down a marker from Spain with these new upgrades which should help with his lacklustre qualifying perfomances so far.

[ValeVida46]

In the Ferrari thread I said that they destroyed the inters in one post and then I said Sainz was clumsy in another. It goes without saying they are not on the pace

But Mercedes are not afforded "it goes without saying they are not on the pace". It's not hard to go through the posts and see that it's Mercedes which invokes your criticism, and this was before the upgrade package. Again, not against criticisms, but immediately we have a double standard in how you're applying your critique.

As for "good vs great", it's a semantical discussion but they are quite similar in my view. It's okay to have a difference of opinion. I didn't say you cannot say it's great. I am just ambivalent.

There's a difference between good and great that's not semantical. There's also a difference between someone saying good and great too. It's hardly nuanced, and would just appreciate quoting me accurately rather placing words in my mouth inaccurately.

Alpine was ahead and if Stroll and Perez could summon some competency, they would also be ahead. It's great for the team to take a result that's ahead of where the car is on pace, but main concern is the car's pace.

We can all make excuses as to why results form after the fact. Russell would've been third had he not spun off as he was ahead of Ocon and Hamilton at that point. Russell himself said he had a brain fade moment, and around Monaco that can mean DNF or getting lucky. So again, we have a situation where other teams are given passes for X reason but you hold Mercedes to a different category of critique for the same reasons.
Scrutinise and criticise by all means, I'm raising my objection to the inconsistent application of that with your quotes as examples of that inconsistency.

[mendis]

Interesting that Russell believed he was in the position to control the pace in front of Lewis. Lewis incidently answered that assumption by creating a 10+ second gap on him over the course of the end of the race. It's clear Russell pushes when Lewis is managing and maybe vice versa. But as soon as Lewis showed his real pace, Russell appeared unable to match and stay close.

Ocon dictated the pace ahead. There was no pace advantage for either Mercedes drivers. George gave up as there was no opportunity ahead and he was well clear of Leclerc behind.

[Incognito]

Interesting that Russell believed he was in the position to control the pace in front of Lewis. Lewis incidently answered that assumption by creating a 10+ second gap on him over the course of the end of the race. It's clear Russell pushes when Lewis is managing and maybe vice versa. But as soon as Lewis showed his real pace, Russell appeared unable to match and stay close.

Ocon dictated the pace ahead. There was no pace advantage for either Mercedes drivers. George gave up as there was no opportunity ahead and he was well clear of Leclerc behind.

Given that people from the leader on down were making mistakes, seems pretty illogical of Russell not to stay with Hamilton. Suppose Ocon had gone wide? Or Hamilton? Being under Hamilton's gearbox would've earned him a place (potentially more if Hamilton and Ocon tangled).

What are people's views of Russell in changeable conditions? I don't recall if he struggles, excels or is generally average.

[taperoo2k]

Same in Bahrain. If Russell sees an opportunity to take Lewis, he destroys his tyres to make it happen, or goes straight on the radio, to tell the world he’s apparently faster, and that Merc need to act and move him aside.

Russell was poor this weekend. Without the rain, he was nowhere

It's what most drivers do, get on the radio to complain that they are faster and their team mate should
move over. Russell never seemed to have the confidence to attack Monaco properly at any point during the
weekend. Lewis even with the crash seemed to be on it and trying to squeeze out as much laptime as he could.

As for tyre management? It's an essential skill to have in F1, it's an area I think Russell has to work on. He's not terrible at it, but he needs to learn patience I guess. It might be time for Wolff to have a word and tell him to tone it down on the radio.

[DGP123]

Interesting that Russell isn’t taking advantage this year of the lucky SC/rain opportunities. That was the difference last year, and gave him the pts difference over Lewis.

In Baku, he got gifted the SC, leapfrogged Lewis, and then Lewis re-overtook him. In Monaco, gets gifted the rain, which Brundle said he desperately needed, leapfrogged Lewis, and then ballsed it up thinking he was already on the podium.

Worrying trend for George. It went his way last year, but it looks a different story this time around.

Agree in regards to those bullet points. Last year inflated that ego, and now it’s not going his way, he’s getting frustrated. Toys might go flying if this continues.

[dans79]

He gambled in Canada to gain an upper hand, which didn't work. Can you blame him for trying unlike Lewis who doesn't and moan when things that the team tried didn't work.

The team is the one that's supposed to have the majority of the input into strategy, because they have a lot more information available to them than the driver does. How many times has RB's strategists been praised for a good/winning strategy? Rhetorical question, a lot.

George's career is relatively short and mostly in poor cars.

The car being poor does not justify forgetting to use your brain. This is George on his off track excursion yesterday.
https://www.racefans.net/2023/05/28/rus ... rom-wolff/

“I’m really kicking myself because P3 was almost guaranteed after not pitting,” he admitted. “I came out, there was a yellow flag, I backed off, and as soon as I touched the brakes, I locked up and followed Stroll up the escape route.

“That’s probably a lesson that actually when you’re not on it and you’re not focussed, you make those mistakes. Probably if there wasn’t a yellow flag there, I would have just been focusing more and I wouldn’t have gone off and cost most the team a comfortable P3.”

He literally admitted he wasn't focused, when he should have been at his most focused. You know, when your are braking downhill in the rain, on bone cold intermediates with a single sector on them. He is super lucky his collision with Sergio didn't end in a dnf thanks to a broken right rear suspension, or damaged gear box.

[DGP123]

Some drivers like Charles and Lewis just wait for the team make the calls and when it goes wrong, they moan. Drivers like Button, Alonso, now George and in some instances Max, have all made their own calls that turned out to be better than the people sitting in front of computers to make those decisions.

In your eyes, Hamilton must just sit there waiting for help every race. Bono must tell him where the pedals are. As for Alonso, he clearly messed up this weekend with those inspired calls he apparently makes, seeing as he pitted for slicks, and then 30 seconds later, it’s tipping down

During a 17 year career, with over 100 race wins, Lewis has made his own calls to win races. Staying out in Turkey for example, was an inspired call, that ended up with him winning the race and championship. There are countless other times too. You just forget that though. What a surprise.

[mendis]

The upside of his comments is, unlike the drivers of the past, the current generation of drivers are more open to self criticism. You have heard George, Lando and Charles all admitting their mistakes and not blaming the team! So that's a good thing for Mercedes!

[...]

[mendis]

Some drivers like Charles and Lewis just wait for the team make the calls and when it goes wrong, they moan. Drivers like Button, Alonso, now George and in some instances Max, have all made their own calls that turned out to be better than the people sitting in front of computers to make those decisions.

In your eyes, Hamilton must just sit there waiting for help every race. Bono must tell him where the pedals are. As for Alonso, he clearly messed up this weekend with those inspired calls he apparently makes, seeing as he pitted for slicks, and then 30 seconds later, it’s tipping down

During a 17 year career, with over 100 race wins, Lewis has made his own calls to win races. Staying out in Turkey for example, was an inspired call, that ended up with him winning the race and championship. There are countless other times too. You just forget that though. What a surprise.

Then why is George making his own calls a problem if you think it's a good thing? Because it doesn't help Lewis?

[Hammerfist]

Ehhhh… drivers making tgeir own calls is risky and usually doesn’t work for them.

I.e. Lando norris lost his first win in sochi a couple years ago because he refused to pit for inters when the team was begging him to.

Im surprised merc gave george so much freedom last year. He is always trying to make his own calls. So far its been 50/50 but i doubt he will be successful long term if they continue to allow it.

The pitwall has more information than the driver. Let the pitwall make the calls, for better or worse. Shut up and drive ffs.

[TimW]

Ehhhh… drivers making tgeir own calls is risky and usually doesn’t work for them.

I.e. Lando norris lost his first win in sochi a couple years ago because he refused to pit for inters when the team was begging him to.

Im surprised merc gave george so much freedom last year. He is always trying to make his own calls. So far its been 50/50 but i doubt he will be successful long term if they continue to allow it.

The pitwall has more information than the driver. Let the pitwall make the calls, for better or worse. Shut up and drive ffs.

Verstappen's team radio on tire deg yesterday was an excellent example of that. Max was complaining about his tires and that he was losing time, GP was reassuring him that he was actually gaining time on Alonso.

But GP was asking Max' opinion during the wet phase of course.

[bosyber]

Ehhhh… drivers making tgeir own calls is risky and usually doesn’t work for them.

I.e. Lando norris lost his first win in sochi a couple years ago because he refused to pit for inters when the team was begging him to.

Im surprised merc gave george so much freedom last year. He is always trying to make his own calls. So far its been 50/50 but i doubt he will be successful long term if they continue to allow it.

The pitwall has more information than the driver. Let the pitwall make the calls, for better or worse. Shut up and drive ffs.

Verstappen's team radio on tire deg yesterday was an excellent example of that. Max was complaining about his tires and that he was losing time, GP was reassuring him that he was actually gaining time on Alonso.

But GP was asking Max' opinion during the wet phase of course.

Indeed, that seems to be the best way to go, the team usually have all the data and the best overview of the race, even when quite a few drivers have shown remarkable insight and usage of the screens around the track to glean information. But in a quickly changing situation, it's a combination of relaying the useful info as best as possible while also trusting the driver with letting you know when the tyres really can't do what is needed (or safe, ie. stop now). If I recall correctly there was a moment in the race yesterday when Hamilton wasn't quite satisfied with the tyres (steering?) and his engineer told him that since stopping wasn't an option (dropping him to the back) he'd better make do, and that was that.

It's usually when team/driver don't trust they will do what's needed to deliver on the chosen target and strategy that things go wrong (I think this is the big issue we often see with Ferrari, they seem to not always have the same goal in mind as their driver).