Mclaren MP4-29H

[prince]

@Skippon: Once again, this is 2014 POST SEASON Testing, not 2015 Pre Season Testing.

@f1rules: Richard pretty much answered this.

We can be worried if this happens in February at the Jerez Test, it is way to soon to doom them now. None of the other 3 Engine Manufacturers ran their PU in a development stage that early. So calm down, i understand it is disssapointing but be patient.

To me, it is about how well the first full run went for each of the Engine manufacturers and on that basis, Merc and then Ferrari did very well to come out and fire the engines and got going in Jan'14. This is the first opportunity for Honda to come on track, fire the engine and get going, but for now they have emulated Renault in failing to successfully be on track and complete some mileage. 2015 Winter test, would essentially be second opportunity for Honda and I just hope they do well and be in a good position.

[Thunder]

But that Logic doesn't really apply for a Project with a Set Deadline. I would understand it if they said "We'll run it when we feel it is finished.", but there is a Set Date when the homologation kicks in, thatÄs when you must deliver, every testing before that Date is good, no matter how much you tested.

[sirexilon]

@Skippon: Once again, this is 2014 POST SEASON Testing, not 2015 Pre Season Testing.

@f1rules: Richard pretty much answered this.

We can be worried if this happens in February at the Jerez Test, it is way to soon to doom them now. None of the other 3 Engine Manufacturers ran their PU in a development stage that early. So calm down, i understand it is disssapointing but be patient.

To me, it is about how well the first full run went for each of the Engine manufacturers and on that basis, Merc and then Ferrari did very well to come out and fire the engines and got going in Jan'14. This is the first opportunity for Honda to come on track, fire the engine and get going, but for now they have emulated Renault in failing to successfully be on track and complete some mileage. 2015 Winter test, would essentially be second opportunity for Honda and I just hope they do well and be in a good position.

It is disappointing, yes, and I would think they can test the pre run and simulate the launch to track in the garage anywhere, but, they had a Film Day that went pretty ok. and 2 days now to find critical problems with installation. We don't know if under the covers that Honda is fitting in all the right places,maybe is just set in positions that wont are ideal but are adapted to the 2014 design.

After all, NONE of the others was able to have their engine ready in November last year, much less try to test in Abu Dahbi last year, so i agree that Honda may be better set, and after all let the problems happen now, that is what tests are for.
Too soon to judge.

[Trocola]

After all, NONE of the others was able to have their engine ready in November last year, much less try to test in Abu Dahbi last year, so i agree that Honda may be better set, and after all let the problems happen now, that is what tests are for.
Too soon to judge.

They couldn't test the engine even if it was ready because it didn't fit in tje car. In 2013 they had a car designed for a V8. Testing the V6 in Abu Dhabi was only possible with a totally new car to fit the power unit.

And, iirc, Honda has been working in the new power unit almost from the begining of the new engine rules, so if they can't put the engine on the car right now, they are a bit delayed, because other teams have 1 year experience

Imho, they need tot test the engine right now to see if it works fine and fine tuning it for the 2015 pre-season test. If they can't do any test now, when it comes february, they will only have less than 2 months to solve the problems they will find

[XRayF1]

It is disappointing, yes, and I would think they can test the pre run and simulate the launch to track in the garage anywhere, but, they had a Film Day that went pretty ok. and 2 days now to find critical problems with installation. We don't know if under the covers that Honda is fitting in all the right places,maybe is just set in positions that wont are ideal but are adapted to the 2014 design.

After all, NONE of the others was able to have their engine ready in November last year, much less try to test in Abu Dahbi last year, so i agree that Honda may be better set, and after all let the problems happen now, that is what tests are for.
Too soon to judge.

I would not be so sure about that.
To compare last year with this year will not help decipher anything.
Only next year's Jerez test will answer the question everyone is trying to answer right now.

But regarding the mounting points and so forth, do you really believe this?
Perhaps you only tried to mention one example, but the dimensions of the engine mounting points are regulated, and McLaren was surely providing Honda with all the other data Honda may have needed to fit the engine to the MP4/29.
It is positive that the engine ran smoothly at the film day, but who is to say in which configuration?
E.g. with or without full ERS?

I am trying to be realistic to what is currently happening with Honda, and they are where the others were 12 months ago, with a lot more data about required reliability, power, and drivability.
I am convinced Honda will make it happen and will have a good engine by the start of the season.

... however, I wonder if they will have the best/most powerful/drivable engine!

Rationale:
Even if they match Mercs PU more or less now, MGP will also upgrade their engine.
And we all know the rumor about them finding another extra 100 BHP for next year.

[Moose]

And we all know the rumor about them finding another extra 100 BHP for next year.

Hahahahahahaha, I love this rumour. Every time you hear it the number grows. I've now heard in sequence, 40, 60, 70, then 100 bhp extra. Soon they'll have managed to make the engine twice is powerful!

[XRayF1]

And we all know the rumor about them finding another extra 100 BHP for next year.

Hahahahahahaha, I love this rumour. Every time you hear it the number grows. I've now heard in sequence, 40, 60, 70, then 100 bhp extra. Soon they'll have managed to make the engine twice is powerful!

I was exactly trying to get at.

However, the same is true for the Honda PU.
Every time I read something about it, it gets smaller, more reliable, more tightly packaged, and at the same time more powerful, and will wreck havoc with the Merc PU.

[Blackout]

Many things will change for software, computer code, mapping. But regarding integration and the architecture of the engine, little. All this has already been finalized some time ago."

Google trad Boullier http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/Boul ... 84701.html

[ChrisM40]

I really dont understand how people dont realise that this is not a pre-season test in January. This test is effectively 8+ weeks earlier than last years testing.

This time last year no one even had a complete car to test. Right now McLaren are happy enough that the car will even move. Its little more than a proof of concept, not only isnt this next years car, its not even next years engine!

[The Moderator]

YASUHISA ARAI - Honda R&D senior managing officer – chief officer of motorsport

“In short, this was a tricky day. We encountered system start-up and data communication issues that prevented us from running as we’d planned.

“However, actually conducting testing at the track enabled us to understand the complexity of the system at a deeper level. We now know what is necessary to further develop the system, and we’ll work together with McLaren to be ready for the next test – at Jerez in February.”

[kooleracer]

I'm not trying to bash McLaren-Honda but when you are given a golden opportunity to get a head start for 2015, because you are already on the back foot simply because you have 1 partner and all the other engine manufacturers have a year worth of data.

You should grab this opportunity an make the most out of it. These two days have been bitterly disappointing. All the resources that have been wasted on this testcar. Surely they would have liked to pound around the track for 2 days and collect as much data as possible. This test could help them with basis things like cooling arrangements. People forget that in 2015 F1 won't test in the middle east. So McLaren can't test a Bahrain type cooling package in pre-season. We saw in last years pre-season testing that a lot of teams run different cooling solution in Bahrain.

This was a hugely important test thats why McLaren did build a test car just to run it for 2 days! So people that think that test went "good" or "OK" are kind off down playing this debacle. What McLaren did the last 2 days on track was waste a huge amount of resources without getting the results they came for. And people comparing McLaren-Honda with other teams shouldn't forget that Honda didn't have a V8 programma running along side their V6 project and also had a longer period to prepare for the test. Because they have had a year longer to prepare their V6 project and also were in the position to gain knowledge of McLaren and Mercedes during that period.

If this is the best they can do right know then McLaren fans shouldn't get their hopes up for the 2015 season. For me this was a shocking test for McLaren-Honda two institutions in F1 with a lot of experience. With all that experience they could only manage 5 laps single laps.

[The Moderator]

If this is the best they can do right know then McLaren fans shouldn't get their hopes up for the 2015 season. For me this was a shocking test for McLaren-Honda two institutions in F1 with a lot of experience. With all that experience they could only manage 5 laps single laps.

not agree at all
Last year Redbull have only 11 lap in Jerez

[f1rules]

im sorry no matter how people try an spin it, compare to renault etc. this has been really disappointing. They had the chance to get a good start, and they failed, im not saying they failed completely, but still

[santos]

I really dont understand how people dont realise that this is not a pre-season test in January. This test is effectively 8+ weeks earlier than last years testing.

This time last year no one even had a complete car to test. Right now McLaren are happy enough that the car will even move. Its little more than a proof of concept, not only isnt this next years car, its not even next years engine!

For Mclaren this was a pre-season test... I would not be happy with a car that only made 5 laps. I belive they will get things right, but for now it's even more disapointing then what happened with Renault this year.

[kooleracer]

If this is the best they can do right know then McLaren fans shouldn't get their hopes up for the 2015 season. For me this was a shocking test for McLaren-Honda two institutions in F1 with a lot of experience. With all that experience they could only manage 5 laps single laps.

not agree at all
Last year Redbull have only 11 lap in Jerez

Like I said stop comparing two complety different situations. Red Bull was fighting for a championship with Renault a year before the switch. Red Bull and Renault put a lot of resources in the 2013 season. They had only winter period to get ready for the test. McLaren and Honda have had a full racing season to prepare for this test. But even in that period McLaren managed even less laps then Red Bull. McLaren's lead up time to this test was much longer then any of the other teams had in 2014 pre-season test. Honda announced their partnership on May 16th 2013, 18 months later 5 laps without doing consecutive laps is the result. I can't call that a successful test.

Boullier said the test had still been positive for McLaren and Honda, despite the lack of running.

"It's true that we didn't run a lot, but we went through a lot operationally and when we didn't run we were dismantling the car and learning a lot about process and what could be wrong in the future," Boullier explained.

"It's obviously not what we wanted to achieve - our target was to run the car on the track and run all the systems.

"It's not good enough and we're not happy, but at least we learned things.

"We were not expecting to develop anything here other than trying the systems, so in some way we didn't achieve this so we failed, but it [the test] is still a bonus, because going into Jerez with the same problems would hurt us much more."

If the Eric says they have failed who are we to argue otherwise?