Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[elf341]

In my opinion, it's not just the DDRS. Although, I don't think the DDRS is doing them any favours - in particular, it should be concerning to their data engineers that they don't have any traditional data on aerodynamic balance effects when a vanilla DRS is engaged (for in 2013 use).

Let's be honest though, the W02 had huge tyre problems. At the start of the season, they were almost always the first to pit, with their first stint often 30% less than the leaders. As they managed to roll out the RB7-style EBD, a lot of their tyre issues began to wane.

And it appears I was wrong about no updates at Spa. From http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101910:

"Schumacher believes the high-speed nature of Spa-Francorchamps allied to car improvements should help his outfit get back on form...."

I suspect they are small, and perhaps not visible, tweaks.

[Dragonfly]

I am following this thread closely but seldom write as I do not have any first hand info.
But doing simple comparisons of the advance of the teams in front and those behind MGP at the start of the year definitely shows they are being overtaken by the teams behind. With lesser budgets and not having the top brass of F1 designers.
Which is enough for me to conclude there's something wrong behind the silver curtains.
Pirelli themselves admitted they do not understand their own tyres. Therefore Brawn's statements about working to understand the understandable while the car itself needs improvements to at least keep with the pace of the rest, seem to be a smoke screen. The best strategy when you don't have any fresh ideas is to copy those who have success. It's not shame and is a common practice, but even that is not to be seen.

[turbof1]

I am following this thread closely but seldom write as I do not have any first hand info.
But doing simple comparisons of the advance of the teams in front and those behind MGP at the start of the year definitely shows they are being overtaken by the teams behind. With lesser budgets and not having the top brass of F1 designers.
Which is enough for me to conclude there's something wrong behind the silver curtains.
Pirelli themselves admitted they do not understand their own tyres. Therefore Brawn's statements about working to understand the understandable while the car itself needs improvements to at least keep with the pace of the rest, seem to be a smoke screen. The best strategy when you don't have any fresh ideas is to copy those who have success. It's not shame and is a common practice, but even that is not to be seen.

Something indeed is not working in the team. Big Updates haven't been seen since monaco, where they redesigned their sidepods. Coincidence or not, but that was also the last time the car competed at the very front. At valencia they got their last podium place when maldonado crashed into hamilton. I believe Germany saw the last updates the front wing, but that didn't helped. Mercedes might need to make the choice between a late huge upgrade or dropping the car for this year.

[marcush.]

can you allow yourself to lean back and say ur product is good enough already and we just need to understandf the tyres better?
It seems very ...hm short sighted if your aim is winning as many races as possible.
You ignore the fact that others pull out more and more development steps and the big risk is :someone genuinely finds time in those developments .
Plus :all your competitors are amassing information about tyre usage as well so where is the adavantage to restrict yourself to understanding the product everyone else is using as well ?

I´d think their plan for this years in season development was seriously flawed and did just lack a broader view -the development of the other teams-
And reviewing the comments especially from Mclaren side -car improvements have helped tyre usage no end does support my view that MGP s ability to work interdisciplinary is restricted ...just remember how they came up with that vanilla car
and surprised themselves with a definete aero package just days before the seasonstart...

I agree rectifying that sort of team issue is not an easy one and it maybe can sorted with lots of time and effort..but to me it seems the missing link is someone who can interrelate all the effects and draw conclusions and define corrective measures from this without having to analyse the whole winter..
Motorsports is about arriving at workable solutions in a shorter time than your opposition.Anything automotive is working to a fixed deadline which is usually a realistic target (low technical challenge ,conservative timeframe).
Motorsports development wants to stick to the same principles but in reality the targets are moving much much quicker ,so your original development plan maybe obsolete before the first race ...see Ferrari.

[turbof1]

can you allow yourself to lean back and say ur product is good enough already and we just need to understandf the tyres better?....

I dont think its a lay back issue. Teams know very well they have to be constantly on the move, ever looking for improvements. Its a problem of allocation. Mercedes is doong what it can into the direction they believe they need to head to.

[Dragonfly]

can you allow yourself to lean back and say ur product is good enough already and we just need to understandf the tyres better?
...................

Completely agree with you. On top of that I simply can't understand a statement like: "Our plan for this year was to win at least one race and it is fulfilled." Which I translate to: "After China we don't put much effort, we get our salaries and happily wait for the next year." One wonders what their grand plan for 2013 will be, maybe 2 wins?
This is not the type of talk I personally expect to hear from an F1 team. Williams also had their lucky win but I have not heard similar statements from them.
There is a frightening resemblance with the grand strategic plans of BMW and what I am not able to find an answer to is whether this is a retarded corporate approach to a dynamic environment or simply a bank account pumping exercise, or both.
My understanding about a team, committed to stamp their authority and brand name in F1 is different. Don't see it in MGP.

[snoop1050]

I think mercedes wrote this season of ages and the lack of updates is because there trying to learn the tyres for next year

theres no way they can say for the 3rd year running they are concentrating on next years so early

[marcush.]

in a few years they will reverse the trend and tell us they have started a new trend of development in season to not have the problem of falling back in the development race...
I have a desire to throw up reading they feel prepared for a strong Spa race....I would have preferred to hear they introduce W04 early to make sure they know their beast for 2013..

[turbof1]

in a few years they will reverse the trend and tell us they have started a new trend of development in season to not have the problem of falling back in the development race...
I have a desire to throw up reading they feel prepared for a strong Spa race....I would have preferred to hear they introduce W04 early to make sure they know their beast for 2013..

Exactly. I highly doubt they have gotten on top of their problems without any tracktime in the meanwhile.

[Ferraripilot]

Spa should be a good circuit for them if they run their aero package as designed. I also heard Pirelli are bringing a different type of hard and medium tire than we have seen before.

[turbof1]

Spa should be a good circuit for them if they run their aero package as designed. I also heard Pirelli are bringing a different type of hard and medium tire than we have seen before.

No they will use the same tyres introduced at the beginning of the seaon. Pirelli has been pretty much very transparent with their policy and will not introduce changed tyres midseason, to make sure one team doesn't suddenly get an advantage. They do changed their allocation compared to last year: last year they used the super softs and the softs, but due the risk of blistering they will use the medium and hard ones instead.

[zyphro]

Spa should be a good circuit for them if they run their aero package as designed.

I'm inclined to agree - low drag. We could see a freak result tbh; not to mention the weather - if wet, MSC will be in with a shout.

[marcush.]

Considering how they announced their perspectives for silverstone and Hockenheim -I assume the car runs as it is and they rely on Schumacher and a raindance to perform extraordinary.
I have seen no hint at all they expect a serious step coming from the car and unfortunatelly I don´t see the car in a strong position just because the team claims they need to push in the second half of the year.
Truth is :you have to push all year long and you have to develop your car to perform everywhere within a shout of bagging podiums or better wins -especially when there is a threepointed 3d star glued to the nosecone.
W03 is just as bad as The Ferrari was at seasons start...reverse engineering in a novel sense.

[turbof1]

Basicilly all we can do is wait. To be blatantly honest nobody knew before Monaco they were going to introduce a significant update on the sidepods. That paid out well for them that race. Perhaps we'll see a suprise update at the Belgian GP after all, though it will have to bring quite some tenths.
Anyhow, they should not complain about the tyres this race atleast. Pirelli did state they were bringing this allocation of tyres to Spa just to make sure teams and drivers don't need to think alot about the tyres. So for now atleasr half the problem is solved.

[VT-Doo]

Spa should be a good circuit for them if they run their aero package as designed.

I'm inclined to agree - low drag. We could see a freak result tbh; not to mention the weather - if wet, MSC will be in with a shout.

THIS! (TWICE)