2014 Engine yin yang

[donskar]

The technical ignorance in the so called specialized press never ceases to amaze, why would there be a difference in
power between race and qualifying when the fuel-flow and MGU-power has the same limit in both situations?

And how could there possibly be a "fuel consumption problem" for Ferrari, when everyone has the same fuel-flow limit,
is their turbo V6 perhaps so pitifully down on power that their drivers will go flat out around the entire track?

CAREFUL, X! I sense a touch of comman sense in your post. Care to recant?

[xpensive]

...
That was before Tag, Honda & BMW came onto the seen, 6 total wins between '84 and '88 tell the real story, their turbo engines were garbage.
...

I think you should be a little more careful how you xpress yourself, even if Ferrari didn't win so many races from 84 to 88,
they stayed in contentions with both poles and regular podiums. It's true however that they couldn't match Honda when it became a fuel-economy race, but neither could anyone else, the 1988 season doesn't even count in my book.

The big loser during that period, other than Alfa Romeo of course, was BMW who carried on with a sub-framed stock block.

[timbo]

Against only Renault & Hart, but when TAG/Porsche, Honda and BMW got into F1 Ferrari lagged behind for years winning only 6 races between '84 and '88(5 years)

Firstly, they won WCC against BMW.
Secondly, until Honda comes back Ferrari IS the most successful of the current engine makers during F1 turbo era.

It is interesting whether Chevy/Ilmor experience is any help for Mercedes.

[WhiteBlue]

It is more interesting to me that Ferrari found it necessary to employ Kimi again. What does it tell us abou their confidence to have a superior 2014 engine and package? I think they would not have gone for Kimi if they were sure to have a superior car. But they obviously do not feel that way and found it necessary to buy themselves two drivers that can both bring in maximum points from whatever car Ferrari will be able to give them. They need to maximize their WCC points and abandoned the all on Alonso strategy which they have never done before in modern times. It speaks volumes about their confidence or rather the lack of confidence IMHO.

[xpensive]

It is more interesting to me that Ferrari found it necessary to employ Kimi again. What does it tell us abou their confidence to have a superior 2014 engine and package? I think they would not have gone for Kimi if they were sure to have a superior car. But they obviously do not feel that way and found it necessary to buy themselves two drivers that can both bring in maximum points from whatever car Ferrari will be able to give them. They need to maximize their WCC points and abandoned the all on Alonso strategy which they have never done before in modern times. It speaks volumes about their confidence or rather the lack of confidence IMHO.

What is even more interesting is why Kimi accepts to drive for Ferrari, as everyone who follows the german specialized press should have realized by now that they will have crap for a car next year, down on power and a gas-guzzler at the same time?

He should have listened to Groucho Marx: "I could not possibly join a club that would want someone like me as a member."

[WhiteBlue]

It is more interesting to me that Ferrari found it necessary to employ Kimi again. What does it tell us abou their confidence to have a superior 2014 engine and package? I think they would not have gone for Kimi if they were sure to have a superior car. But they obviously do not feel that way and found it necessary to buy themselves two drivers that can both bring in maximum points from whatever car Ferrari will be able to give them. They need to maximize their WCC points and abandoned the all on Alonso strategy which they have never done before in modern times. It speaks volumes about their confidence or rather the lack of confidence IMHO.

What is even more interesting is why Kimi accepts to drive for Ferrari, as everyone who follows the german specialized press should have realized by now that they will have crap for a car next year, down on power and a gas-guzzler at the same time?..

Ferrari offered him the money he did not get at Lotus. Simple things for a man who thinks straight.

[xpensive]

Of course Kimi reads AMuS and other specialized press, why he knows that at Ferrari he won't have to mix it with the RBRs or those mean Mercedes-powered cars with 100 Hp more, just collect for his pensionfund. Kimi is very intelligent indeed.

[hollus]

Well, even my Spanish friends are asking me how true are those rumors that the never seen Ferrari engine will be 100HP behind the never seen other engines.
I think it is even worse than that. If they are behind in power, they'll have to use extra fuel to make up for the deficit. Well, max fuel for longer since fuel flow is limited. That will only make them run out of fuel faster, so they'll have to go into fuel saving mode. That will,cost more HP, and to make up for that they'll have to use max power settings for longer than the opposition, so their fuel consumption will increase and they'll lose even more power, which will be compensated by using the highest engine setting making fuel usage go even higher so they'll have to save even more and have even less HP. I reckon the Ferrari engine will end up being MGUK and MGUH only by the time 2014 arrives.

[munudeges]

Although I choose not to comment much on next year's engines because I think they will be an expensive disaster, I, along with X, believe that there are other factors involved than just the ICE and mechanical element. Although I believe the 100HP rumour was pulled out of someone's dark orifice, even if their engine is behind in many areas Ferrari has Shell's laboratory in their backpocket, and they really know their chemistry.

I will also be very interested in what effect the new engines have on Pirelli's already overworked and underdeveloped tyres. If that becomes a limiting factor then you can kiss goodbye to any horsepower advantage you might have. We've had the 100HP Mercedes rumour so I will add in another in that Mercedes have allegedly asked if Pirelli's rear tyres can be widened.

[munudeges]

Ferrari offered him the money he did not get at Lotus. Simple things for a man who thinks straight.

Raikkonen and his management are not that simple I'm afraid and they would also have had McLaren, Mercedes and Honda in 2015 on the horizon if they believed that Ferrari would not have any chance of being competitive. Raikkonen would also have had pretty long conversations with James Allison in the past few months.

He signed a deal with Ferrari in 2005 when McLaren and Renault were miles in front and Ferrari look also-rans. Behind all of that "Don't talk to me" exterior he's a smart cookie and this deal would have had far, far more attached to it than being paid on time.

[rktech]

I have the utmost respect for this sport as you guys are about as reasonably cutting edge as one can get.

Yet, even here in one of the most performance-oriented sports we have scoffers upon hearing claims of achieving an additional 100 hp via a potential break through. Sure such a claim could be rumor or strategy only, but I think it's silly to for anybody here to scoff as though such a claim is impossible, as if to say there's no more room for significant innovations or advancements.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to hear the news of somebody attaining gains of 200 hp or more in the near future while simultaneously cutting fuel consumption by 25% or more where the engines running cooler, more efficient, and greatly extended MTBF rates on various parts.

[WhiteBlue]

I read a lot of piss taking but I do not read any points that would contradict the assumed Ferrari motives for signing Kimi. If they were confident of a superior car they could continue the prior strategy of a #1 driver with a reliable but under achieving side kick. But aparently they do not have the confidence in their 2014 package to do so. I have yet to hear a sensible explanation why this is the case. And until I hear one I prefer to believe that Ferrari themselves lack confidence in their 2014 package and power unit.

[bhall]

I read a lot of piss taking but I do not read any points that would contradict the assumed Ferrari motives for signing Kimi. If they were confident of a superior car they could continue the prior strategy of a #1 driver with a reliable but under achieving side kick. But aparently they do not have the confidence in their 2014 package to do so. I have yet to hear a sensible explanation why this is the case. And until I hear one I prefer to believe that Ferrari themselves lack confidence in their 2014 package and power unit.

The problem is that your preferred assumption here bears no semblance of sensibility to begin with. It makes about as much sense as a football bat.

[xpensive]

I read a lot of piss taking but I do not read any points that would contradict the assumed Ferrari motives for signing Kimi. If they were confident of a superior car they could continue the prior strategy of a #1 driver with a reliable but under achieving side kick.
...

Logically, perhaps RBR with the confidence of having a superior car, has run two reliable but underachieving side-kicks?

[wuzak]

I read a lot of piss taking but I do not read any points that would contradict the assumed Ferrari motives for signing Kimi. If they were confident of a superior car they could continue the prior strategy of a #1 driver with a reliable but under achieving side kick. But aparently they do not have the confidence in their 2014 package to do so. I have yet to hear a sensible explanation why this is the case. And until I hear one I prefer to believe that Ferrari themselves lack confidence in their 2014 package and power unit.

The whole package will need developing in 2014 - car, engine and ERS.

With that in mind Ferrari have signed Kimi as an experienced driver and known quantity in car development.

If they hadn't run him before, or hired someone who has run him recently, like James Allison, they may have baulked at the idea.

And the other side of it is that they may feel that even though Alonso has been considered the best driver on the grid the past couple of seasons that he hasn't be stretched or challeneged much by his teammate - so that signing Kimi may take Alsono to an even higher level.

WB, I think you are really reading too much into this, and it maybe goes back to your lack of fondness for Ferrari.