Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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elf341
elf341
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Joined: 10 Aug 2011, 19:31

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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It's easy in a sense to complain about this team because they promise so much, from the frankly stunning line-up of engineers/drivers, but underperform persistently.
But we should recognise something about this team which I think is a good quality: they try to be different. We are forever howling at Merc for being too slow to copy features up and down the pit lane: they were the last to introduce EBD, and now they are the last to introduce Coanda exhaust. They seem to develop in a direction completely different from the majority of other teams, e.g. SWB (W02), mid-sidepod exhaust exit (W02), DDRS (W03), cascade-less FW (W03), rear-wing endplate actuated DRS (W02+W03), lack of coanda (W03), dropping aero focus for tyre handling (W03), ..
But I think there is a method to the madness, in that they are trying to find an edge which is different and competitive. It is certainly intuitive that merely just looking up and down the pitlane and copying is just a way to be as fast as your competitors were 8 weeks ago.
They haven't been successful in this modus operandi, but I don't think they should drop completely this approach. As with all things in life it is about a balance, and so I hope that with the lotus-copied DDRS and the mclaren-copied coanda their attitude is starting to change. It is surely damaging to a team's ego to have to copy other car's features, but if it brings speed who cares. Finally, this team has to speed up its rate of adaption. McLaren famously instituted a mechanism in their early 2009 woes called "don't put down", where parts were defined as critical and if any team member had that part in their hands they do not put it down until their job is finished and they hand off the part to the next person in the chain. Pat Fry, I think, recognised this as a principal reason as to how they managed to turn their season around so quickly.

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Ferraripilot
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Joined: 28 Jan 2011, 16:36
Location: Atlanta

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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xpensive wrote:
Ferraripilot wrote:
zyphro wrote:The Magny Cour's test should allow the team to test a few upgrades.


+1 Merc should have an interesting raft of updates for their machine.
...
Does that come from your private crystal-ball or is it just wishful thinking?



I see where you're coming from X, and I have no crystal ball. But I do remember the last time Brawn stated a 'visible' update were being put on the car, it was in the form of an EBD being placed on W02. .[/quote]


X, do you have a pie for me ? Haha, we're both good sports mate.

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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If the stories about Hamilton having signed for MGP are true, I guess they will have yet another "TD", Lord what a mess.

@seija: I don't think the Hutt had any part of the scam other than playing the useful idiot.

@pilot: I see that MGP has finally managed to copy the current trend of xhausts, took them long enough, hope it works?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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SeijaKessen
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Joined: 08 Jan 2012, 21:34
Location: USA

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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xpensive wrote:If the stories about Hamilton having signed for MGP are true, I guess they will have yet another "TD", Lord what a mess.

@seija: I don't think the Hutt had any part of the scam other than playing the useful idiot.

@pilot: I see that MGP has finally managed to copy the current trend of xhausts, took them long enough, hope it works?
Well it is helping the Hutt to get paid.

At any rate...

We should take odds on whether Ross can talk Jean into making some seemingly inconsequential rulebook change for 2013 that would allow MGP to exploit it for a long enough time ala double diffusers to have a world-beater...what do you think?

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Ferraripilot
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Joined: 28 Jan 2011, 16:36
Location: Atlanta

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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xpensive wrote:If the stories about Hamilton having signed for MGP are true, I guess they will have yet another "TD", Lord what a mess.

@seija: I don't think the Hutt had any part of the scam other than playing the useful idiot.

@pilot: I see that MGP has finally managed to copy the current trend of xhausts, took them long enough, hope it works?


Hah. Ham the 'TD', how fun. Maybe the Backstreet boys will be his pit crew.

It certainly did take Merc a while to use this solution, but from the look of it one cannot say it was a 'hack and slash' job as it looks quite neatly executed. This is a complete change to how W02 had the EBD implimented which appeared a total mess.

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Ferraripilot
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Joined: 28 Jan 2011, 16:36
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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SeijaKessen wrote:
We should take odds on whether Ross can talk Jean into making some seemingly inconsequential rulebook change for 2013 that would allow MGP to exploit it for a long enough time ala double diffusers to have a world-beater...what do you think?


I thought I heard Ross mentioning very early in that year that he believes the FiA/Charlie will further tighten the exhaust exit regulations to eliminate any form of diffuser sealing, whether is be Coanda or downwash all will be eliminated. This is of course conjecture as nothing has been said except in the beginning of the season when many were questioning the legality of the current-form EBDs.

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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If MrT has an agenda, I believe it's more along the lines of defending whatever french interests there might be in F1.

What's that pilot, you didn't appreciate last year's Volvo-muffler solution, I found it heartwarmingly swap-meetish?

Image anyone?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

marcush.
marcush.
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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xpensive wrote:I would have loved to be a fly on the wall during a management-meeting at Brackley, Ross the Toss trying to follow an agenda with the three kings, Elliot Ness, Small Fry and the Hutt. What would be on top of said agenda, mindboggling really?

setup strategy -kickoff ?
or maybe an expert think tank to unearth the next big thing in F1 development?

or was it -early pension programme activities for proven longtime ´success contributors?

marcush.
marcush.
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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snoop1050 wrote:schumacher claimed sometimes this year that he could feel vibration in the tyres because they werent balanced so i wouldnt be suprised if pirrelis tyres arent very consistent and theres alot of dodygy ones that shouldnt have passed QA
Vibrations from tyre balance? also something our Tyre guru may have a say .
I´d bet on pickup judging from Schumis straightline weaving ....?
A tyre develops vibration usually through flatspotting ,collecting pickup (wrong tyre temp going off line ) or a tyre rotating on the rim when new due to a hard braking ..it happens .You might even lose a balance weight due to a bit of negligeance of applying the weight to the rim..
A out of round tire as a possible cause of vibration I´m quite sure this will be discarded long before leaving the factory ,as it might be safety critical .

schumifan
schumifan
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Joined: 28 May 2012, 11:15

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... 13788.html

not setting the world on fire with times here, but not a track that would suit the W03 - who knows about fuel though.

here's hoping this is worthwhile

Glyn
Glyn
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Joined: 09 Sep 2012, 20:25

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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schumifan wrote:http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... 13788.html

not setting the world on fire with times here, but not a track that would suit the W03 - who knows about fuel though.

here's hoping this is worthwhile
95 laps and still a whole 1 second behind lol

Im not quite sure that can be right?

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SeijaKessen
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Joined: 08 Jan 2012, 21:34
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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xpensive wrote:If MrT has an agenda, I believe it's more along the lines of defending whatever french interests there might be in F1.

What's that pilot, you didn't appreciate last year's Volvo-muffler solution, I found it heartwarmingly swap-meetish?

Image anyone?
Have we seen the last of PURE...or will MrT make the unthinkable occur, and somehow get them to the starting grid whenever those turbo engines get here...if in fact they ever do get here?

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SeijaKessen
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Glyn wrote:
schumifan wrote:http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... 13788.html

not setting the world on fire with times here, but not a track that would suit the W03 - who knows about fuel though.

here's hoping this is worthwhile
95 laps and still a whole 1 second behind lol

Im not quite sure that can be right?
Well, if MGP is to be believed, the W03 isn't suited for any track these days.

Remember, many moons ago when there was still joy and hope in Brackley --actually that may be stretching the truth a bit far, and it should really be in the homes of MGP fans-- it was said the W03 would be the car to beat in a straight line.

That didn't quite turn out as intended, so the next thing said was the W03 couldn't be beaten in medium speed corners.

Well that didn't really happen either.

Then the projections were further revised downward to low speed corners.

And well that hasn't actually happened either.

Then it was something or another about rear tires.

Who can keep up with everything?

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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SeijaKessen wrote: ...
Have we seen the last of PURE...or will MrT make the unthinkable occur, and somehow get them to the starting grid whenever those turbo engines get here...if in fact they ever do get here?
Going off-topic a bit, it seems we were all wrong about PURE, and most of all myself, in that it was just an EU-financed xercise disguised as a development of alternative means of propulsion. Now the money is all gone, where you might ask.

As french as it could have been.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

fiohaa
fiohaa
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Joined: 19 Apr 2012, 21:18

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/09/h ... -mercedes/

seems like its a done deal then.

i cannot believe it. it will be BS if schumacher leaves, mercedes produce a good car for 2013 after putting all the resources in place, and hamilton wins.

i just cannot believe schumacher is being pushed out again, in this manner, when he can clearly still deliver, and his racecraft is frankly better than anyones on the grid.

utterly depressing.