2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[DChemTech]

Did they really?

Jos is in the empire business. He wants leverage and control. He may not want the same thing as Max.

.
How do you get the idea that Jos is in the empire business and wants leverage and control?!
Jos has his own rally career and is rarely present at the circuit. Vermeulen always goes with Max to arrange everything with RBR.

Not sure if he's in the empire business, but in times of trouble, he's certainly the one who knocks

[pantherxxx]

It’s a misconception that Red Bull needs to copy McLaren’s brake duct cooling solution to stay in the title fight. The real issue is tyre overheating, and even small improvements in tyre temperature management can transform race pace. The RB19 was superb on its tyres, often better than the MCL38 (last year’s McLaren) and probably still comparable to the current MCL39 on degradation alone.

In Red Bull’s case, the tyre overheating issue seems to be what's undermining their race pace in certain conditions — particularly on hotter tracks or in traffic. Even a small adjustment in operating temperatures — 2-5°C either way — can completely shift tyre degradation rates and performance windows.

They just need a solution better than what they have now, not necessarily an exact replica of Mclaren's solution. It’s about improving their system as a whole rather than chasing McLaren’s exact solution. Because sometimes, copying another team’s part without understanding how it interacts with your aero philosophy, weight distribution, and suspension characteristics can make things worse.

According to rumours, Red Bull is bringing a new brake cooling solution for Imola. It’s unlikely to be a direct copy of McLaren’s, but if it improves on their current system, it could have a drastic impact on tyre temperature control and overall race pace.

[Bill]

It’s a misconception that Red Bull needs to copy McLaren’s brake duct cooling solution to stay in the title fight. The real issue is tyre overheating, and even small improvements in tyre temperature management can transform race pace. The RB19 was superb on its tyres, often better than the MCL38 (last year’s McLaren) and probably still comparable to the current MCL39 on degradation alone.

In Red Bull’s case, the tyre overheating issue seems to be what's undermining their race pace in certain conditions — particularly on hotter tracks or in traffic. Even a small adjustment in operating temperatures — 2-5°C either way — can completely shift tyre degradation rates and performance windows.

They just need a solution better than what they have now, not necessarily an exact replica of Mclaren's solution. It’s about improving their system as a whole rather than chasing McLaren’s exact solution. Because sometimes, copying another team’s part without understanding how it interacts with your aero philosophy, weight distribution, and suspension characteristics can make things worse.

According to rumours, Red Bull is bringing a new brake cooling solution for Imola. It’s unlikely to be a direct copy of McLaren’s, but if it improves on their current system, it could have a drastic impact on tyre temperature control and overall race pace.

Ok thats riddle speak.why are the tires overheating? the heat source is the brakes ,and yes redbull need to copy mclaren unless they have a better system which they dont

[Watto]

It’s a misconception that Red Bull needs to copy McLaren’s brake duct cooling solution to stay in the title fight. The real issue is tyre overheating, and even small improvements in tyre temperature management can transform race pace. The RB19 was superb on its tyres, often better than the MCL38 (last year’s McLaren) and probably still comparable to the current MCL39 on degradation alone.

In Red Bull’s case, the tyre overheating issue seems to be what's undermining their race pace in certain conditions — particularly on hotter tracks or in traffic. Even a small adjustment in operating temperatures — 2-5°C either way — can completely shift tyre degradation rates and performance windows.

They just need a solution better than what they have now, not necessarily an exact replica of Mclaren's solution. It’s about improving their system as a whole rather than chasing McLaren’s exact solution. Because sometimes, copying another team’s part without understanding how it interacts with your aero philosophy, weight distribution, and suspension characteristics can make things worse.

According to rumours, Red Bull is bringing a new brake cooling solution for Imola. It’s unlikely to be a direct copy of McLaren’s, but if it improves on their current system, it could have a drastic impact on tyre temperature control and overall race pace.

Ok thats riddle speak.why are the tires overheating? the heat source is the brakes ,and yes redbull need to copy mclaren unless they have a better system which they dont

The other thing is right now RBR are pretty good on tyre deg they are just behind McLaren.

Its hard to tell if RBR became worse with tyre deg or is McLaren just found a better solution cars have gotten quicker so not always easy to know which has occurred - or is and perhaps likely its little of both.

[Paa]

It’s a misconception that Red Bull needs to copy McLaren’s brake duct cooling solution to stay in the title fight. The real issue is tyre overheating, and even small improvements in tyre temperature management can transform race pace. The RB19 was superb on its tyres, often better than the MCL38 (last year’s McLaren) and probably still comparable to the current MCL39 on degradation alone.

In Red Bull’s case, the tyre overheating issue seems to be what's undermining their race pace in certain conditions — particularly on hotter tracks or in traffic. Even a small adjustment in operating temperatures — 2-5°C either way — can completely shift tyre degradation rates and performance windows.

They just need a solution better than what they have now, not necessarily an exact replica of Mclaren's solution. It’s about improving their system as a whole rather than chasing McLaren’s exact solution. Because sometimes, copying another team’s part without understanding how it interacts with your aero philosophy, weight distribution, and suspension characteristics can make things worse.

According to rumours, Red Bull is bringing a new brake cooling solution for Imola. It’s unlikely to be a direct copy of McLaren’s, but if it improves on their current system, it could have a drastic impact on tyre temperature control and overall race pace.

What you are saying is true, but it is not a new concept. Teams have been working on this for years if not decades so they pretty much already achieved what they could do in this field. Most traditional solutions are already optimized to bits. So it is not like that Red Bull realize "ahh, we need cooler rear tyres - so that was the problem". And they just bring something that is noticeably better than what they had before.

This is why McLaren's solution seems to be a game changer, because apparently they have found something fundamental that gives them great benefit. It seems radically better than any other team have right now.

So in short, it is not likely that Red Bull (or any other team) could find serious improvement, without finding out and replicating the same concept. It is not very likely that they came up with an other revolutionary way.

[venkyhere]

Ok thats riddle speak.why are the tires overheating? the heat source is the brakes ,and yes redbull need to copy mclaren unless they have a better system which they dont

No. It's not that simple.
Source of tyre heat :
a) 'loading' (flex) on the tyres (longitudinal/lateral) as well as the 'base' flexing even when at constant speed in a straight line
b) brake heat
Funny thing is, brakes need to be at a certain temp for the brakes to actually work ; and tyres need to be at another much lower temperature, for them to behave optimally.

The 'engineering' happening is nothing short of a thermodynamic trapeze act. Add things like altered airflow through the brake cooling ducts during yaw conditions (long radius corners) and we have something like a trapeze act whilst juggling some balls - so it has an aerodynamic aspect as well.

[organic]

Further confirmation from different source that red bull intend to bring their own McLaren-inspired brakes

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mcla ... very-plan/

Red Bull's engineers are instead exploring aerodynamic solutions, suspecting that McLaren may be controlling tyre temperatures through clever heat management between the brake drum and the inner sidewall of the tyre - possibly through convective cooling.

In a bid to close the gap, Red Bull has been working on a new brake bell configuration and revised cooling ducts, taking inspiration from McLaren's solution. The Race understands that the development has been underway since the season-opening Australian Grand Prix.

[Sergej]

Further confirmation from different source that red bull intend to bring their own McLaren-inspired brakes

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mcla ... very-plan/

Red Bull's engineers are instead exploring aerodynamic solutions, suspecting that McLaren may be controlling tyre temperatures through clever heat management between the brake drum and the inner sidewall of the tyre - possibly through convective cooling.

In a bid to close the gap, Red Bull has been working on a new brake bell configuration and revised cooling ducts, taking inspiration from McLaren's solution. The Race understands that the development has been underway since the season-opening Australian Grand Prix.

chance to see them in Imola ?

[venkyhere]

Further confirmation from different source that red bull intend to bring their own McLaren-inspired brakes

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mcla ... very-plan/

Red Bull's engineers are instead exploring aerodynamic solutions, suspecting that McLaren may be controlling tyre temperatures through clever heat management between the brake drum and the inner sidewall of the tyre - possibly through convective cooling.

In a bid to close the gap, Red Bull has been working on a new brake bell configuration and revised cooling ducts, taking inspiration from McLaren's solution. The Race understands that the development has been underway since the season-opening Australian Grand Prix.

Hmm... encouraging to see this - not yet given up hope on 2025 WDC and pouring resources into something 'critical' like this in the last year of the regs. That said, it wouldn't be prudent to expect it to work straightaway out of the box, given the infamous 'correlation' issues. I reckon it would take 1 or 2 races before they properly get it to 'sing'.

[Macafangrskg]

Further confirmation from different source that red bull intend to bring their own McLaren-inspired brakes

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mcla ... very-plan/

Red Bull's engineers are instead exploring aerodynamic solutions, suspecting that McLaren may be controlling tyre temperatures through clever heat management between the brake drum and the inner sidewall of the tyre - possibly through convective cooling.

In a bid to close the gap, Red Bull has been working on a new brake bell configuration and revised cooling ducts, taking inspiration from McLaren's solution. The Race understands that the development has been underway since the season-opening Australian Grand Prix.

Hmm... encouraging to see this - not yet given up hope on 2025 WDC and pouring resources into something 'critical' like this in the last year of the regs. That said, it wouldn't be prudent to expect it to work straightaway out of the box, given the infamous 'correlation' issues. I reckon it would take 1 or 2 races before they properly get it to 'sing'.

I am a McLaren fan but you can understand that this is exactly what McLaren wants. Divert resources to chase something that to perfect toke us almost 2 years. In the meantime the Woking engineers will rebalance the car for the TD for flexi wings and divert focus entirely to 26 . I really hope that RB in the desperation to keep Max happy fall back to the new regulation change

[organic]

Further confirmation from different source that red bull intend to bring their own McLaren-inspired brakes

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mcla ... very-plan/

Hmm... encouraging to see this - not yet given up hope on 2025 WDC and pouring resources into something 'critical' like this in the last year of the regs. That said, it wouldn't be prudent to expect it to work straightaway out of the box, given the infamous 'correlation' issues. I reckon it would take 1 or 2 races before they properly get it to 'sing'.

I am a McLaren fan but you can understand that this is exactly what McLaren wants. Divert resources to chase something that to perfect toke us almost 2 years. In the meantime the Woking engineers will rebalance the car for the TD for flexi wings and divert focus entirely to 26 . I really hope that RB in the desperation to keep Max happy fall back to the new regulation change

The McLaren brake duct innovation should be relevant to 2026 as well which is why it's of particular intrigue to other teams

[pantherxxx]

It’s a misconception that Red Bull needs to copy McLaren’s brake duct cooling solution to stay in the title fight. The real issue is tyre overheating, and even small improvements in tyre temperature management can transform race pace. The RB19 was superb on its tyres, often better than the MCL38 (last year’s McLaren) and probably still comparable to the current MCL39 on degradation alone.

In Red Bull’s case, the tyre overheating issue seems to be what's undermining their race pace in certain conditions — particularly on hotter tracks or in traffic. Even a small adjustment in operating temperatures — 2-5°C either way — can completely shift tyre degradation rates and performance windows.

They just need a solution better than what they have now, not necessarily an exact replica of Mclaren's solution. It’s about improving their system as a whole rather than chasing McLaren’s exact solution. Because sometimes, copying another team’s part without understanding how it interacts with your aero philosophy, weight distribution, and suspension characteristics can make things worse.

According to rumours, Red Bull is bringing a new brake cooling solution for Imola. It’s unlikely to be a direct copy of McLaren’s, but if it improves on their current system, it could have a drastic impact on tyre temperature control and overall race pace.

What you are saying is true, but it is not a new concept. Teams have been working on this for years if not decades so they pretty much already achieved what they could do in this field. Most traditional solutions are already optimized to bits. So it is not like that Red Bull realize "ahh, we need cooler rear tyres - so that was the problem". And they just bring something that is noticeably better than what they had before.

This is why McLaren's solution seems to be a game changer, because apparently they have found something fundamental that gives them great benefit. It seems radically better than any other team have right now.

So in short, it is not likely that Red Bull (or any other team) could find serious improvement, without finding out and replicating the same concept. It is not very likely that they came up with an other revolutionary way.

There is an optimal temperature window in which the Pirelli tyres perform at their best. It doesn’t matter if McLaren has a more effective cooling system, as long as Red Bull can keep their tyre temperatures within that optimal range. As long as they do, there shouldn't be a difference in thermal degradation, even if Mclaren's system is more revolutionary. The issue with the RB21 is that it suffers from overheating, a problem that the RB19 didn’t have. And RB19 achieved that without phase changing materials, just by a stable aero platform.

[Paa]

There is an optimal temperature window in which the Pirelli tyres perform at their best. It doesn’t matter if McLaren has a more effective cooling system, as long as Red Bull can keep their tyre temperatures within that optimal range. As long as they do, there shouldn't be a difference in thermal degradation, even if Mclaren's system is more revolutionary. The issue with the RB21 is that it suffers from overheating, a problem that the RB19 didn’t have. And RB19 achieved that without phase changing materials, just by a stable aero platform.

But do we actually know this?
Judging from empiric evidence all we can say that RB19 was better in that regard vs competition from 2 years ago.
We don't know how RB19 fares against current McLaren or even against RB21. Red Bull confirmed multiple times that although the newer cars are more difficult to handle, they are still faster than RB19.

So going back to whatever they've done with the RB19 is probably not the solution. Otherwise they could have done it easily already.

Maybe RB19 would have even worse degradation if pushed to those laptimes that RB21 is doing now. We don't know these, but I'm sure Red Bull do and they've considered.

[Cs98]

The issue with the RB21 is that it suffers from overheating, a problem that the RB19 didn’t have. And RB19 achieved that without phase changing materials, just by a stable aero platform.

Looking at RB21s relative performance to Merc and Ferrari I'd argue the tyre management hasn't changed much. It's really McLaren that has gotten much better at managing their tyres rather than the competition having gotten worse.

[ispano6]

The RB21 slides more, which causes the temperatures to rise. It slides more because it doesn't have as stable aero platform balance compared to RB19. But the RB21 in Max's hands is setting record poll laps, so it is "faster" over 1 lap. The belief is that track position is king in a tightening field, though it may be better to set up for the race when not a sprint weekend and more time to assess optimal race set up.
A cooler race day will also help.