Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Just_a_fan wrote:I've watched F1 live at Silverstone only. But to stand on the outside of Maggotts and watch the direction change is amazing. Much better than the clips posted earlier by the OP (which isn't actually that close to the track as far as I can tell). An F1 car is impressive in corners, not on straights. You need serious direction change to understand them. Radillon is not the right corner for that.
Also, watch them accelerate out of a slow corner. Amazing. And braking in to a slow corner from top speed? Seen from the side it's like watching a jet landing on an aircraft carrier; they slow down like they have been caught by an arrestor wire.
Watch them on their own on a fast bit of track and they don't look that quick because there is no comparison. Watch them and then watch the support race guys immediately afterwards and you can instantly recognise where they are quicker than anything else.
Agreed. Although both videos I've posted have to be about as close to an F1 track as you can get as a spectator, on amateur videos of other tracks I've seen, they are all further away from the track. I was at about 15m next to the track in both vids.
"There is a credit card with the Ferrari logo, issued by Santander, which gives the scuderia a % of purchases made with the card...
I would guess that such a serious amount of money would allow them to ignore the constant complains of a car that was nowhere near as bad as their #1 driver tried to sell throughout the season.
Heck, a car on which Massa finishes in the podium or has to lift so that his teammate finishes ahead (As we saw often in the final races of the year) is, by no means, a "bad" car."
jdlive wrote:
Personally I would love to see 400 KPH through Eau Rouge in my lifetime. If they didn't limit advances every year, they would be doing that already. Ticket sales would triple...
spare a thought for the driver, G loading increases with the square of the speed don't forget. Even F-22 fighter jets are limited by the dude with the stick in his hands, NOT technology.
Safety when crashing aside for a minute, you don't think these guys could do it? (400 through eau rouge) I'm sure most of them wouldn't mind either, I can already see Hamilton salivating at the thought of doing so
"There is a credit card with the Ferrari logo, issued by Santander, which gives the scuderia a % of purchases made with the card...
I would guess that such a serious amount of money would allow them to ignore the constant complains of a car that was nowhere near as bad as their #1 driver tried to sell throughout the season.
Heck, a car on which Massa finishes in the podium or has to lift so that his teammate finishes ahead (As we saw often in the final races of the year) is, by no means, a "bad" car."
jdlive wrote:
Personally I would love to see 400 KPH through Eau Rouge in my lifetime. If they didn't limit advances every year, they would be doing that already. Ticket sales would triple...
spare a thought for the driver, G loading increases with the square of the speed don't forget. Even F-22 fighter jets are limited by the dude with the stick in his hands, NOT technology.
Safety when crashing aside for a minute, you don't think these guys could do it? (400 through eau rouge) I'm sure most of them wouldn't mind either, I can already see Hamilton salivating at the thought of doing so
Actually, as much as people like to claim g-forces would prevent this, it's simply not true. It's true that pilots begin to black out around 5-7g. Notably though, this is 5-7 *vertical* g when pulling up. It's known though that humans have been able to withstand nearly 50 transverse g during rocket launches without blacking out, and nearly 20 tranverse g in the opposite direction (the limit there appears to be your eyes popping out their sockets). I can't find any good figures for what's survivable latterally, but I have found a couple of papers that basically say "it's not a concern, other than the limits of your neck muscles ability to hold your head up".
beelsebob wrote:I can't find any good figures for what's survivable latterally, but I have found a couple of papers that basically say "it's not a concern, other than the limits of your neck muscles ability to hold your head up".
[...] Remember, you don't only have to "withstand" the g's, but you have to pick your braking points and apexes and possibly try to make move on another driver. Add the shaking and vibrational loads. Now multiply that by 50 laps of action (remember, a jet fighter runs out of fuel after about 10 minutes on full afterburner). [...]
Last edited by Steven on 26 Oct 2011, 22:25, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:Stripped foul mouthing
There was a thread on here a while ago about g forces. I can't find it now unfortunately. It quoted data and graphs. Maximum tolerable g varied with axis and duration.
Edit to add:
Found the thread - viewtopic.php?p=264766#p264766 I suggest discussion about g-forces (a misnomer as x will remind us) and maximum power continues in that thread.
It was trusty Ciro who provided graphs. If you ever use Google to look for something technical on here just add "Ciro" to the search term and you'll find it!
Last edited by Richard on 26 Oct 2011, 22:15, edited 2 times in total.
Just_a_fan wrote:I've watched F1 live at Silverstone only. But to stand on the outside of Maggotts and watch the direction change is amazing. Much better than the clips posted earlier by the OP (which isn't actually that close to the track as far as I can tell). An F1 car is impressive in corners, not on straights. You need serious direction change to understand them. Radillon is not the right corner for that.
Also, watch them accelerate out of a slow corner. Amazing. And braking in to a slow corner from top speed? Seen from the side it's like watching a jet landing on an aircraft carrier; they slow down like they have been caught by an arrestor wire.
Watch them on their own on a fast bit of track and they don't look that quick because there is no comparison. Watch them and then watch the support race guys immediately afterwards and you can instantly recognise where they are quicker than anything else.
Agreed. Although both videos I've posted have to be about as close to an F1 track as you can get as a spectator, on amateur videos of other tracks I've seen, they are all further away from the track. I was at about 15m next to the track in both vids.
The problem is that the bit of track is wrong. The top of Radillon isn't that special for F1 cars these days. You need a corner that is, well, a corner. Somewhere that you can, hopefully, see the direction change from directly in front and/or from close to the track as they move away. Maggotts/Becketts works well for this bacause at Maggotts you're on top of the cars as they sweep in to Beckeets and from the far end of the complex you can look back and watch them run through the corners - corners that the drivers all rate as special. Also, Copse is great because it's a true high speed corner. Watching from directly in line with the old pit straight, the direction change is amazing!
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
Looks good in the vid, must be great being there in person. So yes, the spot you pick makes a huge difference.
Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
-Atatürk
Just_a_fan wrote:I've watched F1 live at Silverstone only. But to stand on the outside of Maggotts and watch the direction change is amazing. Much better than the clips posted earlier by the OP (which isn't actually that close to the track as far as I can tell). An F1 car is impressive in corners, not on straights. You need serious direction change to understand them. Radillon is not the right corner for that.
Also, watch them accelerate out of a slow corner. Amazing. And braking in to a slow corner from top speed? Seen from the side it's like watching a jet landing on an aircraft carrier; they slow down like they have been caught by an arrestor wire.
Watch them on their own on a fast bit of track and they don't look that quick because there is no comparison. Watch them and then watch the support race guys immediately afterwards and you can instantly recognise where they are quicker than anything else.
Agreed. Although both videos I've posted have to be about as close to an F1 track as you can get as a spectator, on amateur videos of other tracks I've seen, they are all further away from the track. I was at about 15m next to the track in both vids.
The problem is that the bit of track is wrong. The top of Radillon isn't that special for F1 cars these days. You need a corner that is, well, a corner. Somewhere that you can, hopefully, see the direction change from directly in front and/or from close to the track as they move away. Maggotts/Becketts works well for this bacause at Maggotts you're on top of the cars as they sweep in to Beckeets and from the far end of the complex you can look back and watch them run through the corners - corners that the drivers all rate as special. Also, Copse is great because it's a true high speed corner. Watching from directly in line with the old pit straight, the direction change is amazing!
Silverstone's not far off from here so I'll go it check it out there in the coming years. I'll check back on my thread here then to make sure I'm on the right stand
"There is a credit card with the Ferrari logo, issued by Santander, which gives the scuderia a % of purchases made with the card...
I would guess that such a serious amount of money would allow them to ignore the constant complains of a car that was nowhere near as bad as their #1 driver tried to sell throughout the season.
Heck, a car on which Massa finishes in the podium or has to lift so that his teammate finishes ahead (As we saw often in the final races of the year) is, by no means, a "bad" car."
This is where I got as closer as I could to the track. I stood up right behind the fence of pitstraight end. And it was Friday FP1. (You can't come here during the race, coz the circuit staffs tell you to go away. )
The cars looked much faster in real life than in this video.
I have to disagree with this topic. After being a fan for over 20 years, i finally was able to see a race live(Monza 2011). i sat at turn 1 and was just amazed how quick the cars can brake and then accelerate out of the chicane. It was quite crowed, but i enjoyed every moment. I can't wait to watch Austin and New Jersey. I am just disappointed that i waited so long. I would highly recommend any fan to watch one race live, you will not be disappointed. I just wish i could get closer to the cars. I am really interested in the technical side of racing. Hopefully when i finally finish my schooling and work as a race engineer I will one day be working for a F1 team and be on the other side of the fence.
OP, do you have any experience of other types of motorsport? Were there any support races at Spa that you watched?
Its hard to judge the speed of anything as an absolute. An F1 car is so much more impressive when you have something to measure its relative speed against.
I was in Abu Dhabi the week before last and was lucky enough to get some time to watch a few of the different cars they have there at some kind of corporate track day. Some little hatchbacks, some Aston Martins (DB9s, I think) and what looked like older Formula 3000 cars.
The difference in speed between the hatchbacks and the Astons was only really noticeable on the straights. Corner entry/exit speeds were about the same and the hatchbacks seems a little more inclined to look like the were going faster, as there was a tendency for the tail to come out, particularly in hard transitions between corners.
Watching the F3000 style car, what was most noticeable was two things. First, just how much later the drivers could apply the brakes and; second, the amount of speed that was carried through the corners.
The regular road cars were doing maybe 60 to 70 kph (pure guesstimate here) through a left-right-left turn complex, turns 11 through 13 for the full F1 track. The F3000 was entering the first corner at maybe 80-90 kph and exiting the third turn at 120-130 kph.
The difference was absolutely yawning. I’d imaging that an 800 hp F1 car, with 3 or 4 times the downforce, would only be more impressive.
Stand a the braking point for the hairpin in Canada. You can hear the cars coming, and the moment it appears, the brakes are hit and the gears are dropped. By the time you turn your head, the car is only about 70 feet away, and is already slowed for the hairpin from 200+mph.
The sound and the noise and the air being displaced never gets boring.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
I would like to know how much experience you jdlive has as motorsport live watcher. I assist to races since Im 12 (thats 17 years of races) and have seen Dakar, Rally, F1, F3, various touring cars including FIA GT, many many kinds of tin tops, small formulas, karts, drag races, drift races and motorbikes. Maybe LeMans prototypes, Indy, NASCAR and sidecars are the only things left for me to see. Still F1 is the best motorsport spectacle I ever assited (95 to 98) and take into account it was a rather dull track the one in Buenos Aires...
I did never get bore when watching vehicles at speed live, cant say the the same at TV... again, here F1 leads
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna
