2021 Pecking order prediction

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Mercedes
..
0.5s
..
Red Bull
.. 0.25s
Aston Martin/ Renault/ Mclaren / Ferrari / Afla Tauri / alfa Romeo
Williams/ Hass
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kistigun
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Mercedes/Red Bull
Ferrari
Alpine
Aston Martin
McClaren
Alpha Tauri
Williams
Alfa Romeo
Haas

LHamilton
LHamilton
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Joined: 23 Jun 2012, 15:40

Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Car performance;

Mercedes
RB
Aston Martin
McLaren
Ferrari
Alpine
AT
AR
HAAS
Williams

Actual constructors;

Mercedes
RB
Alpine
Ferrari
McLaren
Aston Martin
AT
AR
HAAS
Williams

I think that Aston Martin will have the best midfield car, however, not by much. Less than 2020. It will generally be Vettel draging that team forward points wise with Stroll struggling to follow suit due to the increase competitiveness of the midfield. Similar trends might to be found in McLaren and Ferrari. However, in these teams the difference between teammates will be less than in Aston Martin, but still quite substantial.

Alpine in 3rd is based upon that Alonso being in similar form as when he left, and Ocon keeping making strides to show that driver I think he can be. (I rate him highly). For me, probably the best pairing in F1 (if said things before are true). This is also why I put Alpine in 3rd. If Alonso does Alonso things, then Alpine has a good chance at 3rd. Because i rate Ocon ahead of Stroll, Sainz and Norris, and thus might just edge the other teams in points.

Mercedes with the best car will romp away, with RB a secured second, even if Checo isn't up to par (I expect him to struggle in the beginning of the season due the only one and a half days testing). The midfield battle will be to close for anyone out of them to gain enough upon RB to battle them for 2nd place. They will take points from eachother. It will be very similar to this season, where we might get a photo finish to end it all.

The backend team will remain the same. We might see them closing the gap slightly to midfield team due to Ferrari's new engine and suspension resolvement. So whatever gain Williams has made aerodynamiclly, might be seen as "obsolete" due to HAAS/Alfa Romeo's improvements on the engine side. So I'd guess it's pretty much status quo. Reckon Alfa Romeo has the best chance of gathering most points out of the three bottom teams, and Schumacher might snatch a few 10th place finshes in some of the crazy gps. Gut feeling is that he (Schumacher) has the same mentality as Perez when it comes to racing, in that "to finish first, first you must finish", and will focus more on being consistent and be there when it counts, rather than pure speed.

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Schippke
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Mine is probably going to be too long to bother reading, but what the heck; I'll run through each of the teams and explain why... quiet time of year. :P

1. Mercedes
No real surprises here; Considering how early they stopped developing the W11 in the season, I'm sure they are well on their way with W12, which again will springboard their assault for 2022. Consistency is Mercedes' weapon here, enabling themselves to keep doing what they're doing and with Hamilton (more than likely) remaining at the team, cannot really see them being toppled next year. In saying that, I reckon they'll be put under more consistent pressure now by...

2. Red Bull
Regardless of who was going to drive for the team in 2021, I think Red Bull will close the gap to Mercedes a bit. The Honda unit looks as if it is more than a match for the rest of the Power Unit suppliers on the grid so no need for worries there. Despite the rule changes, Red Bull will work to make the car a bit less twitchy... won't matter as much for Max who seems to be able to extract everything out of the car anyway, but should greatly assist Perez. Speaking of which, if Sergio can get up to speed relatively quickly in the car ahead of the season (or at least after the first couple of races) and he can utilise he's great ability of managing tyres/race pace... then Red Bull can start playing around with the strategy to throw Mercedes under pressure. The Perez signing has effectively given them another dice to roll during the races, where they originally only had the one (in Max) to utilise... pardon the gambling terms! I'm fairly confident in saying Red Bull will win a few races in 2021, probably all with Max. I argue they've got the best pairing on the grid.

3. Ferrari
Without trying to be too biased, I'm a Tifosi... so hopefully this one is accurate! Again, with such a short amount of time, this will also depend on how quick Sainz can get to grips with new machinery given the small amount of testing available. Regarding Charles, I have no doubt in his speed and getting a lot out of the car... hoping another season under his belt will iron out some of those mistakes he has made. The big factor for me placing them 3rd is their expected new Power Unit for 2021; If they've managed to claw back a decent junk of performance and should their modifications at the rear of the car that they're expected to use their tokens on bare fruit, I'm expecting that alone will yield them a massive increase in pace. Reliability however is a question mark, given how new the concept is according to a mixture of sauces and speculation, but I'm hopeful they can challenge Red Bull and might snag a win with a bit of luck with Charles.

4. McLaren
Whilst McLaren did manage to finish 3rd last year, I think they'll have a bit of a transition with the Mercedes Power Unit coming to them and no doubt will be dedicating a lot more resources to better integrate the package into their 2022 machine with all the new rules coming into place. In saying that, I reckon we'll see a few podiums from the likes of Daniel Ricciardo, who if his Renault season this year is anything to go buy, looks to be in peak form. In saying that, I reckon the Renault Power Unit they were using wasn't all that bad at all, seeing as Renault themselves seemed to be very competitive at a fair few of the circuits involving high-speed straights so power didn't seem to be lacking. Regardless, McLaren also have the advantage of being able to modify the car considerably more than all the other teams so that can also enable them to iron out any issues the previous car might've had when modifying the chassis to fit the Mercedes bits. I think it'll be neck and neck with Ferrari and them next year, which will be nice to witness going back to the battles of the past, albeit maybe not for the wins as such.

5. Aston Martin
This one was the hardest to try and slot, because for 2 main reasons. Firstly, it'll depend on how much they can continue to utilise their current package of the W10 concept and evolve it further. In saying that, it could give them an opportunity to further enhance it now they've got a solid understanding of how it all works. I do think they have been flattered a little bit with some of their results due to Perez being able to manage the tyres and still have great speed (not to take anything away from Stroll, who also stepped up a considerable amount this year) which gave them some great and well deserved results... which brings me to my next point; Vettel. This is where it'll either be a make or break for me; IF he manages to regain his so called 'mojo' or gets the support (and car) he needs to perform and its a case of Vintage Vettel, then I reckon he'll be causing a LOT of trouble for Ferrari (LOL), Mclaren and possibly Red Bull. I reckon he is still capable of incredible speed and when everything is working for him, he is easily one of the top drivers on the grid. In saying that, it is a major IF considering the season he has just had at Ferrari. Whether that was himself not being motivated, Ferrari not supporting him (take that as you will) or whatever it is, he underperformed the most out of ANY of the drivers on the current grid in my opinion. Comparing that to Charles, especially considering how close they were in 2019, theres a lot of questions regarding what he'll be like next season. For me, I hope its a return to former glory and he can run for the podiums when the chances arise.

6. Alpine
If Aston Martin was the hardest, Rena... I mean, Alpine was next! I could be very wrong about this, as I can honestly see Alonso coming back and doing what he does best; Wringing the neck out of whatever he is given to drive. The guy could be tasked to drive a ride-on lawn mower and still be able to get it into Q2 I reckon. I have no doubt in his ability and he will be quick. He is incredibly versatile and given the chance, he'll score a podium or 2 I reckon. I do hope the team don't neglect Ocon too much; Towards seasons end this year, he was running a fair bit closer to Daniel compared to the start so hope he can do the same with Alonso, but there'll be a lot of pressure on him no doubt; Between Hamilton, Verstappen and Alonso, those are the big 3 I'd be fearful teaming up against, purely for their relentless speed and consistency. I'm not expecting any major surprises with the car, though potentially they might be able to develop their Power Unit even more so to their liking now they no longer have to supply any other teams on the grid. It may be a drawback having less data to run with, but if it is all for the one package then there is less compromises to be made and more resource can be put forward to perfecting it all for themselves.

7. Alfa Romeo
Might be a bit of a surprise seeing them a bit higher, but this also comes down to the expected gains from the Ferrari Power Unit the team will have at their disposal. I really think them and Haas were heavily compromised this year to the power defect they had to endure due to Ferraris... 'actions'? So they could never really get the car into a position that would yield them decent points. I think Kimi is a bit long in the tooth now, though he still had some solid moments during the season, like he's incredibly start in Portugal. I think Giovinazzi was beginning to outpace Kimi towards seasons end, but I'm still quite surprised he has kept his seat... was thinking it would've gone to Mick Schumacher instead but regardless, with more power I see Alfa Romeo being able to find themselves in the points more often... reliability pending!

8. Alpha Tauri
Nothing too surprising here either in my view; Gasly is going to be quick and score points consistently. The car has solid speed and the team environment seems to be one of the best on the grid, so they'll be quick. I'm not expecting them to score as many points in comparison to this season, as I'm not expecting another win from them anytime soon, but they'll be there to mix things up. Looking forward to seeing how Tsunoda gets on next season and welcoming a Japanese driver back on the grid.

9. Haas
Like Alfa Romeo, I reckon a bit of their struggles have come from the lacking of thrust from the Ferrari Power Unit so they should claw some of that performance back. In saying that, the car itself hasn't been an easy one to drive according to outgoing Grosjean and Magnussen so I don't see them making much progress. Maybe a few points in by seasons end, but I feel they'll be dedicating all their time and resources for the 2022 car... and rightly so. I'm looking very much forward to seeing how Mick performs, though still somewhat displeased with Mazepins recent actions. We'll see how they go, but very much a transition year for the team I feel.

10. Williams
Despite the low ranking, I think George will score points for the first time next season (in a Williams instead of a Mercedes that is!). I see the team in a similar position to Haas in trying to get through the year and utilising the maximum allowed Wind Tunnel testing time compared to the other teams (due to their finishing position this year) and throwing everything behind 2022. Hoping Latifi can step up his game a bit and run a bit closer to George, though again I'm not really expecting miracles from them.

---

To conclude, despite the rankings, I see everyone being incredibly close next season. Mercedes should still hold a 0.2-0.5 advantage over Red Bull on average, but nothing that cannot be overhauled by them should they manage to nail the strategy or if they can pressure them into a mistake. Ferrari I expect to be best of the rest in 3rd, but between them and McLaren, Aston Martin, Alpine, Alfa Romeo and Alpha Tauri... if 2020 was incredibly tight this year for the midfield, I reckon 2021 will be closer again... and for me, that is where a lot of the entrainment will come from! The potential of a resurgent Ferrari with Sainz onboard, a powered-up and on the rise McLaren with Ricciardo in top form, the prospect (and hope) of Vintage Vettel in fresh (green!) colours in a car and team that'll suit him, the return of Alonso in a much more competitive machine, Alfa Romeo hopefully gaining some pace with more power, a welcomed addition of a Japanese rookie... and a legendary name in the form of Schumacher appearing on the grid, there is a lot to be excited about in my view! I hope the world situation regarding the Pandemic eases in the coming months so we all can enjoy as full of calendar as possible and all the teams have a fighting chance with minimal disruption... and whilst a lot of effort will be diverted to the massive rule changes of 2022, 2021 has the potential to be a season we'll remember just as much, if not more so than this one.

Honestly, cannot wait any longer! Wish they had more testing ahead of the season so we could see the teams and drivers in action, particularly the rookies and the ones switching teams... a tad unfair on them in my view.

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dans79
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Zynerji wrote:
18 Dec 2020, 19:18
RBR finishing 2020 strong.
I think this is more of an illusion caused by merc ending development of the 2020 car very early, and then the PU scare for the last race.
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Holm86
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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I fear RedBull will struggle with their high rake concept next year.
It's essential for them to seal off the diffuser, and that will be difficult with the floor cut-outs in 2021.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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I think the Max / Sergio pairing will put Mercedes under pressure in the early season. I think Red Bull will favour Max over Sergio and by mid season there will be fractures in the team. This will reduce the pressure on Mercedes allowing them to take both titles again. Horner will have his hands full just as with Max / Danny.

I think Ferrari will be fighting McLaren for 3rd. Charles will have his hands full with Carlos and it'll be close between them all season.

I think Seb will show flashes of his old self, maybe even taking a win if others trip up each other.

Elsewhere there will be no real surprises.
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JRindt
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Mercedes
RedBull
Mclaren/ Ferrari
Alpine/ Aston Martin
Alpha Tauri
Alfa Romeo
Haas/ Williams

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Big Tea
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Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Just_a_fan wrote:
21 Dec 2020, 12:14
I think the Max / Sergio pairing will put Mercedes under pressure in the early season. I think Red Bull will favour Max over Sergio and by mid season there will be fractures in the team. This will reduce the pressure on Mercedes allowing them to take both titles again. Horner will have his hands full just as with Max / Danny.

I think Ferrari will be fighting McLaren for 3rd. Charles will have his hands full with Carlos and it'll be close between them all season.

I think Seb will show flashes of his old self, maybe even taking a win if others trip up each other.

Elsewhere there will be no real surprises.
I wonder if maybe Merc will decide to 'prioritise one of its drivers' (Back Ham at Bot expense) if they feel uncomfortable how close Red Bull are with 2 cars scoring good points?

I feel quite sure they would not in a normal season but this year really is one for the record books for them and Hamilton. They could well be into their last dominant period if there are so many changes and 'equalising' coming up.
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Zynerji
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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dans79 wrote:
21 Dec 2020, 11:09
Zynerji wrote:
18 Dec 2020, 19:18
RBR finishing 2020 strong.
I think this is more of an illusion caused by merc ending development of the 2020 car very early, and then the PU scare for the last race.
Yeah, I agree with that as well, but the motivation of a win can push a team higher.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Big Tea wrote:
21 Dec 2020, 13:23

I wonder if maybe Merc will decide to 'prioritise one of its drivers' (Back Ham at Bot expense) if they feel uncomfortable how close Red Bull are with 2 cars scoring good points?

I feel quite sure they would not in a normal season but this year really is one for the record books for them and Hamilton. They could well be into their last dominant period if there are so many changes and 'equalising' coming up.
I shall be annoyed if they do.
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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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It's very hard to pin down where everyone is going to wind up next year. Everyone is making big gains on the engine side. Ferrari and Honda are both very bullish about the step they're taking next year. Renault is very quiet, they're the big unknown at the moment, and are focusing solely on their own team. Mercedes is said to bring nice gains next season, that they may have to make some chassis compromises but the increased power will be a net gain.

I think Mercedes should still be ahead. That their Abu Dhabi performance was not their normal level, maybe the fact there were no support races can explain the pace loss in qualifying from the whole field.

Regarding whether high rake or low rake will benefit more from the rule changes. People say a lot of things without considering all the facts. Yes RB runs more rake than Mercedes, but some posters make it sound like you can seek shelter in the RB's diffuser, and the Mercedes can barely fit a sheet of paper down there. The difference in wheelbase is 16mm.

More important than rake is how much real estate you can open up back there with a repackaged power unit. Smaller radiators, tighter body work, repositioned components to open up more space in front of the diffuser. With some packaging improvements and aero developments up front, all that downforce can be clawed back. Most teams are pretty confident they already recouped the downforce to early 2020 levels.

The Ferrari powered teams will join the battle for points, along with Williams. It will be harder to score points next year, it will also be harder to get a podium or win.

Unless Renault makes a big mistake I don't see them losing ground to AM or McLaren, those 3 will likely be very close and Ferrari will just edge them out. Any of those 4 will be able to snatch the odd podium. But the top 3 steps will be taken by the top 2, although the gap will be smaller than ever.

My dream scenario would have Max and Hamilton going toe to toe, with Bottas and Perez getting occasional wins.

The RB chassis can improve, they've done a lot of on track validation to develop their concept over the winter, Mercedes rarely makes development mistakes and they had a .3-.5 gap, (.7 when Hamilton went beast mode) over RB in race pace for much of the year. The gap started closing towards the end when Mercedes stopped developing the car.

So RB is bringing a 40% new package, mostly focused on aero and the rear end. Mercedes is focusing on the front.

If RB is going to fight Mercedes either the RB chassis or the Honda engine has to have an edge on Mercedes, and the other can't be more than .2 behind.

Driver predictions:
Hamilton
Verstappen +/-.1
Bottas/Perez +.2-.3
LeClerc/Sainz +.4
Riccardo/Alonso/Norris/Ocon/Vettel +.45
Tsunoda/Gasly/Stroll +.5-.6 (sometimes Russel can join this group)
Raikkonen/Giovinazzi/Schumacher/Russel +.7
Mazepin/Latifi +.9-1

Closer gaps means overtaking is going to be even more difficult for better or worse. We could have not necessarily the fastest win a race because the chasing car can't overtake. Overtaking will either be done at the start, qualifying will be more important, and depending on the durability of the tires people like Perez may have an advantage.
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Moore77
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Big Tea wrote:
21 Dec 2020, 13:23
Just_a_fan wrote:
21 Dec 2020, 12:14
I think the Max / Sergio pairing will put Mercedes under pressure in the early season. I think Red Bull will favour Max over Sergio and by mid season there will be fractures in the team. This will reduce the pressure on Mercedes allowing them to take both titles again. Horner will have his hands full just as with Max / Danny.

I think Ferrari will be fighting McLaren for 3rd. Charles will have his hands full with Carlos and it'll be close between them all season.

I think Seb will show flashes of his old self, maybe even taking a win if others trip up each other.

Elsewhere there will be no real surprises.
I wonder if maybe Merc will decide to 'prioritise one of its drivers' (Back Ham at Bot expense) if they feel uncomfortable how close Red Bull are with 2 cars scoring good points?

I feel quite sure they would not in a normal season but this year really is one for the record books for them and Hamilton. They could well be into their last dominant period if there are so many changes and 'equalising' coming up.
Mercedes don't have to do anything. The new, reinvigorated Bottas Ver 179.25.2176 would be busy fighting a McLaren and a Ferrari for No. 7 in drivers rankings.
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Xwang
Xwang
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Today I was shocked to find a betting site that gives Mercedes as the manufacturer's winning team in 2021 at 1.30. The next is Red Bull at 3.45 and then Ferrari at 13.00.
I expected Mercedes to be at 1.00001

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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but Honda, well.... Redbull are talking themselves up massively right now. Surely RedBull should be under 2.00?
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