F430 Scuderia

[Carlos]

Let me try to understand ... after all these years Ferrari is embracing the ideals of Colin Chapman - smaller, lighter more agile cars with superior power to weight ratio's, resonable power and overall efficiency?

The Lotus philosophy in full bloom - embraced by Italian marques?

Actually that was the design direction of the original Dino. What goes around comes around again. If this is true ... soon I'll be ... back in demand among the ladies? [-X

[mx_tifoso]

Let me try to understand ... after all these years Ferrari is embracing the ideals of Colin Chapman - smaller, lighter more agile cars with superior power to weight ratio's, resonable power and overall efficiency?

The Lotus philosophy in full bloom - embraced by Italian marques?

Actually that was the design direction of the original Dino. What goes around comes around again.

About the Lotus philosophy embraced by Italian marques, it is a great combination

The only idea I dont agree with is the smaller displacement turbocharged engines. It is not that I have anything against them, but I don't prefer them (personal reasons I guess).
Increased power to weight ratios in sports cars is never a bad thing.

And yes, the Dino did use this idea of less power and weight. I've heard rumors of it coming back but to be honest, I doubt them. And it probably won't be too light, compared to the original. If Ferrari truly used the "Lotus philosophy" it would most likely be in the new Dino, a perfect fit wouldn't you say?

I will go as far as saying that Ferrari will only go down to a V8 in their "true" high performance GT deparment.

[West]

They need cars like the F40 again.

[mx_tifoso]

They need cars like the F40 again.

In what way?

It's style? Design? Powertrain (2.9L TT V8 )? Or low weight (1100kg)?

Or simply the overall design philosophy?

This version of the F430 only has 250 kg's more than the F40, so it's not that far off in a number of ways. Plus, the F40 only has 471 hp, compared to the F430 Scuderia's 510..

Very different generations of design and style though.

[West]

They need cars like the F40 again.

In what way?

It's style? Design? Powertrain (2.9L TT V8 )? Or low weight (1100kg)?

Or simply the overall design philosophy?

This version of the F430 only has 250 kg's more than the F40, so it's not that far off in a number of ways. Plus, the F40 only has 471 hp, compared to the F430 Scuderia's 510..

Very different generations of design and style though.

Simplicity in overall design. 500 lbs is a lot, and the F430's exterior is overdone.

[mx_tifoso]

They need cars like the F40 again.

In what way?

It's style? Design? Powertrain (2.9L TT V8 )? Or low weight (1100kg)?

Or simply the overall design philosophy?

This version of the F430 only has 250 kg's more than the F40, so it's not that far off in a number of ways. Plus, the F40 only has 471 hp, compared to the F430 Scuderia's 510..

Very different generations of design and style though.

Simplicity in overall design. 500 lbs is a lot, and the F430's exterior is overdone.

500 lbs are a lot. But I guess they can't take that much more off. Even with all that aluminum and carbonfibre. I once heard that the F430 weight could have been lower, but due to some legal issues regarding crash impact ratings the wieght had to be raised to what it is now.

The wheels and stripes are definately overdone. More traditional BBS's will look better and offer the good old look we have come to expect from Ferrari. And the stripes should go. It's too flashy for many Ferrari "purists" and "purists" in general. But you have to admit that the interior is really nice, very simple and only offers what is needed, no bells and whistles.

Maybe when the "real" photos appear we will see it in a different way (hopefully better).

[mx_tifoso]

I wonder how it will do up against Lamborghini's leightweight version, the Gallardo Superleggera. The Gallardo SL has beaten the "normal" F430's lap time of the Nurburgring’s Nordschleife by nine seconds. I wonder if the F430 Scuderia will be able to recover Ferrari's position against Lamborghini at this famous circuit.

Lap Times
Gallardo Superleggera- 7:46
F430- 7:55

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/supe ... ng-in-746/

Even more absurd is Porsche's "supposed" lap time by their 997 GT2, which is 7:32! I believe only has Porsche has confirmed this such time.

[allan]

i think the scuderia can challenge the Lambo for sure. They both share almost the same power, around 520 bhp, but the ferrari is lighter and has a much better gearbox with the new quick-shift system.

[West]

I wonder how it will do up against Lamborghini's leightweight version, the Gallardo Superleggera. The Gallardo SL has beaten the "normal" F430's lap time of the Nurburgring’s Nordschleife by nine seconds. I wonder if the F430 Scuderia will be able to recover Ferrari's position against Lamborghini at this famous circuit.

Lap Times
Gallardo Superleggera- 7:46
F430- 7:55

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/supe ... ng-in-746/

Even more absurd is Porsche's "supposed" lap time by their 997 GT2, which is 7:32! I believe only has Porsche has confirmed this such time.

Regardless of the lap times, I would take the 997 GT2... to me it has the most understated bodywork... and I would like to see what an RR driveline feels like. In all honesty, only a select few who buy those cars will actually have the skill to get those lap times.

[GTO]

The Gallardo S & 430 S are not equal to compare. Gallardo has 5L-V10 all-wheel drive vs. 4.3L-V8 rear wheel drive for 430 S.

[mx_tifoso]

The Gallardo S & 430 S are not equal to compare. Gallardo has 5L-V10 all-wheel drive vs. 4.3L-V8 rear wheel drive for 430 S.

Maybe not, but everyone compares them. They are both the entry level models for each respective manufacturer. They share similiar output levels and weight. Although Lamborghini prefers the V10 powerplant along with the untraditional AWD drivetrain, and Ferrari with their amazing V8 and the very traditional RWD.

What makes the F430 even so much more amazing is the fact that even with two cylinders less it almost matches the Gallardos output. But the Gallardo has about 30 lb-ft of torque more than the F430 (non Scuderia and Superleggera models), possibly due to the fact that the Lambo is packing a V10.

[Belatti]

The only idea I dont agree with is the smaller displacement turbocharged engines. It is not that I have anything against them, but I don't prefer them (personal reasons I guess).
Increased power to weight ratios in sports cars is never a bad thing.

maybe my last post in turboch vs. superch makes you change idea !!!

viewtopic.php?t=4453&start=30

[GTO]

For fun everyone can go ahead an compare the two cars as if they were equal, but they ARE NOT EQUAL IMHO. Just because they have similar bhp figures does not make them equal.

The Gallardo's AWD has the following advantages:
-better offline acceleration
-better braking ability - can brake deeper into corner
-better acceleration out of corner - can accelerate sooner out of corner
-better overall traction

This is the reason the FIA banned the Audi A4 AWD Quattro system from BTCC racing after '97. The Audi Quattro cars ran away with the title. And now guess who makes the Gallardo...Audi.

Another advatage the Gallardo S had is its low weight of 1330 kg with the advantages noted above of AWD and 700cc larger engine vs. the 430 S weight of 1250 kg. Add in the superior grunt & torque advantage of V-10 engine, and the Gallardo is a totally different animal. They may look the same in size & power, but IMO the Gallardo has a definite demonstrable advantage on the track.

Let's compare apples to apples NOT oranges.

[allan]

u may have a point gto..
However, with all those advantages, the F430 did smash the Murcielago's (with a v12) record on the top gear track if i'm not mistaken...

[mx_tifoso]

Even with the larger powerplant and AWD, the Gallardo Ss weakness is that it has 80kg's on the F430 S. And has Alan has mentioned, the Ferrari's gearbox gives it another advantage over the Lambo. The 4.3L revs higher as well, 500rpm more to be exact.

And if the F430 has done so well against other sports cars, ones with more power and different drivetrains, I don't see why it wouldn't be able to take on the Gallardo S.

It might not be the fairest of comparisons, but a good one at that; two Italian manufacturers head to head.

These are all facts and figures, but what really matters is their performance on the same track.

Question(s): why does AWD have the advantage of "better braking ability - can brake deeper into corner"
Does drivetrain configuration affect braking characteristics? Or is it up to the brake system and setup