Is Hamilton desperate or what?

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
FLC
FLC
0
Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 14:01

Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

Post

Giblet wrote:The racetrack, which is what the pit entrance is, has a white line. If all four wheels go over, then you are in breach of the rules when you pass, and must relinquish the position.

If one or two go over, it doesn't matter, and is withing the rules.
This is just a snap shot of a poor youtube video, but considering Vettel's proximity to the white line, and Hamilton's position, I believe the latter has all 4 wheels outside.

Image

I've also quoted the regulations in appendix L in regard to pit lane entry in the previous page, but no one commented. Would be happy to hear (read) your thoughts, all.

lebesset
lebesset
7
Joined: 06 Aug 2008, 14:00

Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

Post

so if brundle is so biased towards british drivers why did he say , and I quote , I would give vettel a warning and hamilton a penalty
perhaps you mean he is biased towards german drivers?
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

Post

Timomies wrote:
Just_a_fan wrote:I think Martin Brundle (on BBC TV coverage of the race) summed it up nicely when asked by the other commentator why the drivers moan about Hamilton in the drivers' briefings. "<chuckle> Because he's too good, too fast for them" was basically the response.
lol. Ask someone who is not british :lol: He creates dangerous situations every season, have got more penalties than any other driver in the recent years and he still doesn't get it. Maybe one/two race ban would knock some sense to him #-o
There is a saying in rugby (maybe in other sports too): "you play to the whistle". I.e. you don't stop because you think you or someone else might be doing something wrong. You do your thing and if you get a slap for it then you take that on the chin, learn from it and move on.

Hamilton, like Schumacher/Senna before him, is pushing the rules all of the time. Sometimes he gets a penalty, sometimes he gets away with it.

All of the other drivers who moan do so because they know, deep in their hearts, that there are really only 2 or 3 drivers in the field who are real world class drivers. Alonso is another one. Button seems to be showing some real class (more than he did last year in my opinion). Vettel looks to be the real deal too. What do Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel all have in common? They push the boundaries. Alonso got away with cutting the pit lane entry corner as did Hamilton. Vettel got away with crowding Hamilton in a dangerous manner in the pitlane (watch the video of him pushing across in to Hamilton). Both got away with a wrist slap.

Webber's response to being muscled in the restart? Get on the radio and bitch. Sod that - get the hammer down and out drive the bloke. Stop whining like a school boy.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

Post

FLC wrote: I've also quoted the regulations in appendix L in regard to pit lane entry in the previous page, but no one commented. Would be happy to hear (read) your thoughts, all.
Both Hamilton and Alonso were guilty of breaching the white line rule. Why they weren't punished is for the stewards to say. :?

If I were a conspiracy theory man (which I'm not), I'd say that to punish Hamilton would have meant Alonso being punished and the FIA doesn't like to hit Ferrari too hard, as we all know :twisted:.

There, that should if the general tone of lots of posts in here :wink: :lol:
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

FLC
FLC
0
Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 14:01

Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

Post

Well, personally I think Alonso should have been penalized for that move on Massa.

User avatar
Pandamasque
17
Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 17:28
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

Post

I can't see any change in the attitude of LH this year to be honest. He was always like that. Well at least it became evident in 2008. Blindingly fast and very aggressive. But the direct opposite of a gentleman racer on the track and a pechalent child off the track (and on the radio). just like last year and the year before. Desperate? Don't think so. It's too early in the season to be desperate. He's got every chance to win the WDC this year. If not at least he'll be the F1 World Reprimand Champion surely :mrgreen:

Richard
Richard
Moderator
Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
Location: UK

Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

Post

Curious how many people here are shouting foul while the participants are saying it is all part of the normal rough and tumble of racing.

segedunum
segedunum
0
Joined: 03 Apr 2007, 13:49

Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

Post

Giblet wrote:Seg, again, you have posted no rule to back up your wrong claim.
FLC has already take care of this, but naturally, no one reads and no one wants to pay attention:
FLC wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the following article from appendix L addresses this pit lane entry issue?
Entrance to the pit lane
a) The section of track leading to the pit lane shall be referred to as the “pit entry”.
b) During competition access to the pit lane is allowed only through the pit entry.
c) Any driver intending to leave the track or to enter the pit lane should make sure that it is safe to do so.
d) Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the Stewards of the Meeting), the crossing, in any direction, of the line separating the pit entry and the track is prohibited.
The racetrack, which is what the pit entrance is, has a white line. If all four wheels go over, then you are in breach of the rules when you pass, and must relinquish the position.
You've asked me for a rule and you've been given one, so where's your 'rule' for that load of claptrap?

One can only imagine where you've got that four 'wheels' crap from. Anyhow, it's quite clearly that is the case from the image above so you don't have that defence. Drivers have certainly been penalised for pit exits by putting even one wheel beyond a white line, but we haven't yet seen it applied to the entry because it hasn't become an issue - yet.

Giblet
Giblet
5
Joined: 19 Mar 2007, 01:47
Location: Canada

Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

Post

The rules of the sport.

If you pass someone with all 4 wheels off the track, it's an illegal pass, and the position must be relinquished.

I have asked you twice to quote a rule, and your posts do not reflect this. you are going off your gut.

Since you can't I will, and then explain why A, your tone is annoying and offensive, and B, why my stance is the way it is.
Entrance to the pit lane
a) The section of track leading to the pit lane shall be referred to as the “pit entry”.
b) During competition access to the pit lane is allowed only through the pit entry.
c) Any driver intending to leave the track or to enter the pit lane should make sure that it is safe to do so.
d) Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the Stewards of the Meeting), the crossing, in any direction, of the line separating the pit entry and the track is prohibited.

FLC, those are the rules you stated.

First, the pit lane line they refer to in the rules separates the racetrack from the pitlane.

The white line in question here actually separates the runoff area from the pitlane, hence is not listed in the rules. Therefore legal in my eyes.

Secondly, the rule about passing another car off track is very well documented, if the car passes off track, then it is not a legal pass. Two wheels off is and always has been fine, whether that is just off the edge the track, on the rumble strip, or whatever.

I make my decisions based in what I perceive the rules to be. What are you basing YUR decisions on Seg? Seems like your gut, or your imagination.

Secondly, to show you your posts sound like they come from the mouth of a child who likes to argue, I quote from you a few lines from just two pages of posts on the Chinese Grand Prix:

"You're very deluded I'm afraid."

"It's utter brain damage, and you know it."

"You people are nuts. Seriously."

"As you well know, this is meaningless bullshit."

"You clearly have no idea what you're talking about."

"You've asked me for a rule and you've been given one, so where's your 'rule' for that load of claptrap?' - Just added this new one :lol:

Please, keep your tone civil, stop talking down ot everyone, and behave in a way that will keep you from getting banned form the site, as we'd hate to lose your insightful posts.
Last edited by Giblet on 19 Apr 2010, 13:48, edited 1 time in total.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

User avatar
Pandamasque
17
Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 17:28
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

Post

@ segedunum fair point. This rule needs to be implemented more thoroughly though. As far as I remember not only Alonso and Hamilton crossed that line but many other drivers entering the pits on their own were cutting the left-hander at pit entry (and thuus the line) quite a lot.
Also I don't recall anyone ever penalized for such an offence. While they often penalize for doing exactly that on the exit.

segedunum
segedunum
0
Joined: 03 Apr 2007, 13:49

Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:Both Hamilton and Alonso were guilty of breaching the white line rule. Why they weren't punished is for the stewards to say. :?
Probably because we've never seen that issue before (flimsy excuse I know), other than drivers taking some liberties to enter the pit lane in the fastest way possible.

I just wish the stewards and the FIA would uphold their own rules. If not, don't bother publishing them or penalising a driver for it once in a blue moon. Any money, someone is now bound to be penalised for pit lane entry where they haven't been before in the past.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

Post

segedunum wrote:
Just_a_fan wrote:Both Hamilton and Alonso were guilty of breaching the white line rule. Why they weren't punished is for the stewards to say. :?
Probably because we've never seen that issue before (flimsy excuse I know), other than drivers taking some liberties to enter the pit lane in the fastest way possible.

I just wish the stewards and the FIA would uphold their own rules. If not, don't bother publishing them or penalising a driver for it once in a blue moon. Any money, someone is now bound to be penalised for pit lane entry where they haven't been before in the past.
The simplest thing is probably to create an entry that prevents people from breaching the rules as we saw on Sunday. Instead of a white line, how about a kerb each side. Thus any driver trying to be clever gets a kerb up his chuff. Or a series of offset kerbs like the ones they use at some chicanes. Thus you have to weave around the kerbs or risk damaging the car.

Likewise, to prevent the risk of a mechanic getting injured in the next side-by-side pitlane race, how about a car-length kerb between each pit box and the pitlane? That would stop people trying to run the whole length of the pitlane adjacent to another car.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Richard
Richard
Moderator
Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
Location: UK

Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

Post

Pandamasque wrote:@ segedunum fair point. This rule needs to be implemented more thoroughly though. As far as I remember not only Alonso and Hamilton crossed that line but many other drivers entering the pits on their own were cutting the left-hander at pit entry (and thuus the line) quite a lot.
Also I don't recall anyone ever penalized for such an offence. While they often penalize for doing exactly that on the exit.
Probably because on exit you get a slow car jumping into the path of a fast car. Also, you hear the commentators saying that drivers are briefed by the race director that this is going to be strcitly enforced at certain circuits when exit has poor sight lines. Rosberg in Singapore 2009 is a good example.

On the pit entrance you there is normally nothing but yourself and the gravel trap, hence no need for a hard rule for that situation.

If two cars are making for the same pit entrance at the same time side by side, then in my eyes that's the same as any normal racing manoeuvre. Again, no need for a hard rule, it is covered by the general sporting rules.

Richard
Richard
Moderator
Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
Location: UK

Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:to prevent the risk of a mechanic getting injured in the next side-by-side pitlane race, how about a car-length kerb between each pit box and the pitlane? That would stop people trying to run the whole length of the pitlane adjacent to another car.
Nice one. So a car veering slightly off track is guaranteed to loose control? A person caught by surprise would trip as they tried to move out of the way?

Lets base this rule making on facts. Can anyone recall an injury to a mechanic that was not caused by a car from his own team? There are one or two, but I suspect a tiny minority. Of that tiny minority, how many are from a car straying from the fast lane into a pit?

Oh

None (IFAIK).

No need for panic rule making.

lebesset
lebesset
7
Joined: 06 Aug 2008, 14:00

Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

Post

pit exit is a totally different rule ; you must keep 100% inside the length of the line or automatic penalty ....this rule is enforced 100% , can't remember if the penalty is 10sec or a drive through , the latter I think , been a while since I saw it ..rosberg maybe ?

point is , the drivers know exactly where they stand which is why you don't see it normally , there is a definition whether or not a wheel on the line is in or out
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be