Will Williams F1 ever get back?

[ESPImperium]

I think Williams will get back to the leading edge agasin, but not this side of VW getting involved in the sport, as ive been having a look at motorsport aliances and from what i can see, and feel and read into. It is in my opinion that we will see a Audi badged engine in 2013 for 2 teams, Williams as the two are linked in Formula 2, Williams design and build the chassis and Audi provide the power train. But the thing is that Williams are providing Porsche with KERS for their GT programme, so id expect a Audi branded engine in F1 to carry the Williams Flybrid KERS system as well.

I think this is the only way for Williams to get back to the front with a works engine. Thay came close with Toyota, but the Toyota was 0.3 tenths down on the opposistion, with the Williams FW30 and FW31 at the hands of Rosberg could have done dammage at at least half a dozen races in those races.

I think if Williams also get some quality sponsorship as well, and with the falling cost of F1, i think if williams get good investment and works power, with their buisness plan with both Frank Williams and Patrick Head and their wise heads leaves Williams a way to the front again.

One thing they need to do is stop the brain drain to other teams for their tallent in their design and aero department, this is the one area they need to stop first by getting their design team on long term contracts with a stong designer at the helm. If i were them id ideally go for either Pascal Vasselon (Ex-Toyota) or Geoff Willis (Hispania/Dallara and Ex-Red Bull/Honda) for their head man and then build from there.

I always have hope for Williams, but in the short term i think there isnt much hope, but in the medium to long term, it could look good for them.

[Belatti]

Williams last success where because the superior 90s Renault engines and Adrian Neweys aero, wich also where aided by the early 90s active suspension.

Newey left to McLaren and speed went there in 98-99. Only Ferrari could beat that in the early 00s.

Before that Williams won when they had Honda engines (87) and a couple of good seasons with Jones and Reutemann.

[raceman]

This team is there in F1 just for racing, a real hard-core racing team. I wish they get back to the front ASAP. [-o<

[WhiteBlue]

Fact is that Williams was nowhere without BMW in 1998 and 1999 and after BMW pulled out it did not get any better...

Williams WCC standings

1998 (Mecachrome) 38 points

1999 (Supertec) 35 points

2000 (BMW) 36 points

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WilliamsF1 ... ix_results

You better tell the whole story:

1998 (Mecachrome) 38 points, 3rd
1999 (Supertec) 35 points, 5th
2000 (BMW) 36 points, 3rd
2001 (BMW), 80, 3rd
2002 (BMW), 92, 2nd
2003 (BMW), 144, 2nd
2004, (BMW), 80, 4th
2005, (BMW), 66, 5th
2006, (Cosworth), 11, 8th
2007, (Toyota), 33, 4th
2008, (Toyota), 26, 8th
2009, (Toyota), 34.5, 7th

With BMW in six years Williams had on average 83 points and 3,5th in the championship.
Without BMW in six years Williams had on averagage 30 points and 5.8th in the championship

I think the figures speak for themselves. Of course pre 1998 they have also been better but we were trying to look at the future which must be based on what resources they have now.

BMW made a big difference to Williams as they made to Sauber. Sauber had six podium places in thirteen seasons without BMW. They were all 3rd places.

With BMW they had 17 podiums in four seasons which included nine 2nd places and one race win in 1-2 fashion.

So without a shadow of a doubt BMW engines and management did massively improve both teams they partnered or bought in the ten years in F1. Williams was ill advised not to integrate with them in 2003 when they asked for it. It may have gained them a championship in the last years if they had put the right people in charge.

As it stands now Williams could have success with Porsche or Audi engines in F1 but only if Head calls it a day and totally leaves the engineering to a new and capable technical director. I don't think that Michael is capable to get Williams back to the top.

Perhaps it will take until one of Sir Fank's kids Jonathan or Claire is experienced enough to take over from dad and hire the right people.

[pgj]

Pgi

Dont suppose you could expand on that could you?

http://f1fanatics.wordpress.com/2009/05 ... 010-entry/

http://www.attwilliams.com/reuters/article/180

Although Williams announced before the FOTA meeting that it already had a contract in place that precluded it from withholding its commitment to race in F1 2010. IIRC Force India announced its intention to sign up to F1 2010 after the FOTA meeting so it was Force India and not Williams that broke ranks with FOTA. As already posted, web-folklore dictates that it was Williams and not Force India that was the pantomime villain. Hope this clears up your confusion.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Pgj I will respon in good time mate, just checking my sources before unleashing my broadside.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Right I will just cover 2009 as this is where Williams lost some of the respect I had for them.

Firstly they attempted to block Brawn competeing in 2009.
Then they blocked Schumachers Ferrari return in 2009 by not letting him have a drive of the 09 car under FIA auspices.
And then lastly, perhaps worst of all, they blocked a fellow independant in returning this year, Sauber.

So while they give it paragon status when it suits them, they are just at adept at being underhand. Denying Sauber a place on the grid?

One reason only for this. MONEY.

Or Resentment at BMW? either way, unsavoury

[lebesset]

to get back to the subject I will plagiarise mr clemens ..... reports of the death of williams have been greatly exaggerated

at the moment williams are not in the same financial league as the big boys , but they are well used to operating on much leaner budgets ...when all the big teams are driven back to their level they will be in good shape thanks to a couple of wise old birds who have kept them in the game , using whatever tactics that have been necessary

at that stage I expect them to pass the baton and for them to be back in the first division

[pgj]

Right I will just cover 2009 as this is where Williams lost some of the respect I had for them.

Firstly they attempted to block Brawn competeing in 2009.
Then they blocked Schumachers Ferrari return in 2009 by not letting him have a drive of the 09 car under FIA auspices.
And then lastly, perhaps worst of all, they blocked a fellow independant in returning this year, Sauber.

So while they give it paragon status when it suits them, they are just at adept at being underhand. Denying Sauber a place on the grid?

One reason only for this. MONEY.

Or Resentment at BMW? either way, unsavoury

Sorry for high-jacking this thread.

This is becoming a Williams hate thread. You are entitled to form any opinion that you wish. However, you are wrong again. Williams did not try to prevent Brawn from racing. Williams objected to Brawn being granted FOM prize-money. Other teams tried to do exactly the same thing with Mercedes for 2010. When you announce that you are checking your sources, you really should check them.

All teams signed up to a test ban. A test ban is just that. It applies to cars and, to a slightly lesser extent, to drivers. No special dispensation was made for any rookie to test last year, why should an ex-world champion be any different? Why should anyone be upset at the rules being enforced? If it was a fitness test for Michael, he could have driven a 2006 chassis in any configuration for as many miles as he wanted to.

I have no idea what your point is regarding Sauber.

I suggest that if you want to continue this exchange that an old Williams thread is restarted. It is disrespectful to take this thread over.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

No, pgj

You didnt read my first post. Its evident your a Williams fan, I commend you on seeing through the last year

Please do not say I "hate Williams". My first post clearly gave them credit for past achievements, but if this is what you dwell on then the fact remains Williams are a team in decline like it or not.

This is very much still on-topic so i see no real isssue with continuing debate.

PS ALL teams agreed for Schumacher to test except of course for Williams.
It this against the grain policy that riles me.

[pgj]

I have been a Williams supporter for a very long time. I make no secret of that. I did read your first post. Did you read both of my responses to it?

The thread subject is "Will Williams get back [to winning ways]?". F1 politics and whether Michael was allowed to circumvent a test ban is not pertinent to it.

[xpensive]

I'm both with WB and JET here in different ways. Losing BMW, and as a result HP, was a cardinal mistake, no matter how much Theissen was a pain in the arse. Ever since then this once paramount team in F1 has been playing sour grapes and trying to be a stumbling block for everything. Spending money on that gyro-thing in the financial position they are I don't even wish to comment.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

expensive

+1

And there is the reason why Manufacturers will think twice before signing up with Williams.
Concentrated what relevance that has in terms of Williams getting back to winning ways? Every relevance since Williams has done blow all with out manufacturer support.

[WhiteBlue]

....Theissen was a pain in the arse.

The other way it becomes a shoe. Dick Head was the PITA. He was the cause for all the problems Williams had since 1997. Theissen was well capable to organize a team and let the guys do their job as he showed in Sauber. A pity that the board got pissed off after ten years in F1 and squashed it when they cut 4.000 jobs in 2009.

[pgj]

Well you may be right about the gyro-thing. But it is going to generate income for the team. If it secures a works deal with VW then it will have landed a bigger fish.