Schumacher's 2011 performance

[marcush.]

I don´t think Schumacher is disgracing himself in F1 right now.He´s a competitive driver still not ÜBERSchu but hell ,he is not miles away from Rosberg who is considered the future .It´s not like rosberg is lapping him.considering the compromising of his race by the petrov incident he was not so far behind Rosberg in the endß

[bot6]

So many people forget how good Rosberg is. Remember the results he got with his shitbox of a Williams? To me he's got to be one of the top three drivers on the grid, with Hamilton and Alonso.

Also, I do think he deserves and earns his seat. Brawn did not hire him for him to display the dominance he showed before retiring. He hired Schumi because he has experience of how to build a strong team around him, capable of winning championships on a regular basis. Schumacher is there for his technical expertise, his interaction with the engineers and especially the emulation he creates around him and the work ethics he shows. He's not just a driver to this team.

[Just_a_fan]

I'm actually finding a little bit of satisfaction from Schuie's poor performance. Those of us who always questioned his legacy (especially the Ferrari years with clever contracts, bespoke tyres and unlimited testing) are being vindicated.

Rosberg is making Schumacher look ordinary. As someone else has said: it's his legacy to throw away...

All drivers who have no 1 status have preferential treatment. Senna, Hamilton, Mansell, Schumacher, Alonso to name a few have all had this. It is an ugly truth but I don't understand why Schumacher is always singled out.

Senna won his titles in open battle with Prost. If he got No.1 status at Williams I'd be surprised but he wouldn't have needed it against Hill anyway.

Mansell always wanted No.1 status but Williams have always been a "two equal drivers" for as long makes no difference - he beat Patrese partly because Patrese couldn't get on with the active suspension on the FW14B and partly by just being quicker. I don't think he got No.1 status at Ferrari either.

Not sure when Hamilton had No. 1 status. I think he and Heikki were treated as equals. He's also holding his own against a WDC in an equal status team currently.

Alonso does seem to want to be treated as No.1 particularly after getting his arse smacked by a rookie at McLaren. I don't know what his position is with Ferrari/Massa but he seems to be driving away from Felipe most of the time anyway.

Schumacher was the stated No.1 in Ferrari (there is even talk of driver contracts being written to implement this). That's a big difference. Also, Ferrari had the benefit of a very close relationship with Bridgestone at the time (indeed the tyre rules were changed partly because of this). So he had a compliant team mate in arguably the best car with bespoke tyres and as much testing as you could physically do (Ferrari's huge budget helped here of course) on a private track next to the factory. Hardly surprising he did well. Of course, he still had to go out there and win, so I respect him for that, but 5 straight titles against limited opposition isn't quite as impressive as titles won against powerful opponents in my opinion.

Anyway, he's currently getting smacked by Rosberg and if he doesn't sort it out soon then, by the end of the year, the shine on his legacy will have been significantly dulled.

[Giblet]

Schumacher was the stated No.1 in Ferrari (there is even talk of driver contracts being written to implement this).

I'm not a big Schumi fan, however I have heard this before but never seen it substantiated.

Is there a source? Because a lot of what you said hinges on this being true or just hearsay.

[Just_a_fan]

Schumacher was the stated No.1 in Ferrari (there is even talk of driver contracts being written to implement this).

I'm not a big Schumi fan, however I have heard this before but never seen it substantiated.

Is there a source? Because a lot of what you said hinges on this being true or just hearsay.

Trying to find details of contracts is always difficult of course but Austria 2002 is usually held as a good indication of the relative status of Schumacher and his teammate. At race 6 out of 17 the team ordered the win be ceded to Schumacher to assist his title challenge. There is no other reasonable explanation for such an order so early in the season when both drivers were still capable of winning the title.

See also the following where Rubens tells of Ferrari's team orders situation:
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2037 ... am-orders/

[Gerhard Berger]

I'm actually finding a little bit of satisfaction from Schuie's poor performance. Those of us who always questioned his legacy (especially the Ferrari years with clever contracts, bespoke tyres and unlimited testing) are being vindicated.

Rosberg is making Schumacher look ordinary. As someone else has said: it's his legacy to throw away...

All drivers who have no 1 status have preferential treatment. Senna, Hamilton, Mansell, Schumacher, Alonso to name a few have all had this. It is an ugly truth but I don't understand why Schumacher is always singled out.

Senna won his titles in open battle with Prost. If he got No.1 status at Williams I'd be surprised but he wouldn't have needed it against Hill anyway.

Mansell always wanted No.1 status but Williams have always been a "two equal drivers" for as long makes no difference - he beat Patrese partly because Patrese couldn't get on with the active suspension on the FW14B and partly by just being quicker. I don't think he got No.1 status at Ferrari either.

Not sure when Hamilton had No. 1 status. I think he and Heikki were treated as equals. He's also holding his own against a WDC in an equal status team currently.

Alonso does seem to want to be treated as No.1 particularly after getting his arse smacked by a rookie at McLaren. I don't know what his position is with Ferrari/Massa but he seems to be driving away from Felipe most of the time anyway.

Schumacher was the stated No.1 in Ferrari (there is even talk of driver contracts being written to implement this). That's a big difference. Also, Ferrari had the benefit of a very close relationship with Bridgestone at the time (indeed the tyre rules were changed partly because of this). So he had a compliant team mate in arguably the best car with bespoke tyres and as much testing as you could physically do (Ferrari's huge budget helped here of course) on a private track next to the factory. Hardly surprising he did well. Of course, he still had to go out there and win, so I respect him for that, but 5 straight titles against limited opposition isn't quite as impressive as titles won against powerful opponents in my opinion.

Anyway, he's currently getting smacked by Rosberg and if he doesn't sort it out soon then, by the end of the year, the shine on his legacy will have been significantly dulled.

Watch the French Grand Prix of 1992. Williams used team orders in that race to the benefit of Mansell.

Alonso didn't really get his arse smacked by a rookie, though he was probably surprised by how quick Hamilton was.

For me, Schumacher's most impressive years were seasons like 95, 97 and 98 - where he was able to challenge for the WDC in an inferior car. His class really shone through.

[HampusA]

I think the Mclaren Alonso/Hamilton situation only showed just how good of a driver Hamilton really is, nothing can be taken away from Alonso at all which many seem to think.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I think the Mclaren Alonso/Hamilton situation only showed just how good of a driver Hamilton really is, nothing can be taken away from Alonso at all which many seem to think.

+1

Particularly as the second half of the season Alonso was persona non grata at McLaren. He certainly wasnt very high on McLaren's Christams card list...regardless of what was said or done.

[marcush.]

Schumacher certainly was the loved toy of Mr.ecclestone as soon as he realised that this guy may be the first german to grab the crown.
Surely he was instrumental for turning around Ferraris fate..Would they have ever clinched a title again without him? I don´t think Brawn,Byrne ,Todt and all those really really serious guys working at Ferrari todays would have even considered going there...so he really was some kind of Messias for the red team -admittedly without todt no ways ,but it was him signing that opened all these doors.No ways anyone not Alonso,Hamilton nor Vettel has that in their personality.

[HampusA]

I think the Mclaren Alonso/Hamilton situation only showed just how good of a driver Hamilton really is, nothing can be taken away from Alonso at all which many seem to think.

+1

Particularly as the second half of the season Alonso was persona non grata at McLaren. He certainly wasnt very high on McLaren's Christams card list...regardless of what was said or done.

I also think much of the talk about Alonso being mad or whatever is complete bullshit. Alonso doesn´t seem like the type of guy to complain when his team mate is faster. I think in the beginning he was shocked at the speed Hamilton had and just upped his game a little to match Hamilton.

Either way, both of them is clearly the two best driver´s in F1 right now.
One with the raw talent, the other with the experience, the calmness and completeness.

[HampusA]

Got a PM aswell notifying me of Mr. Schumacher is now banned

[Just_a_fan]

Schumacher certainly was the loved toy of Mr.ecclestone as soon as he realised that this guy may be the first german to grab the crown.
Surely he was instrumental for turning around Ferraris fate..Would they have ever clinched a title again without him? I don´t think Brawn,Byrne ,Todt and all those really really serious guys working at Ferrari todays would have even considered going there...so he really was some kind of Messias for the red team -admittedly without todt no ways ,but it was him signing that opened all these doors.No ways anyone not Alonso,Hamilton nor Vettel has that in their personality.

The Ferrari dream team was basically the Benetton dream team painted red though. Ferrari didn't hire Schuie, they hired Schuie and his team.

[marcush.]

I do not recall exactly how things fell in place back then but I´m rather sure that Schumacher signed for Ferrari before Todt was there .First year was with Barnard as tech director and Byrne was only coming early enough to draw the third (?) Ferrari driven by Schumacher..right?

[Just_a_fan]

Watch the French Grand Prix of 1992. Williams used team orders in that race to the benefit of Mansell.

Fair point.

Alonso didn't really get his arse smacked by a rookie, though he was probably surprised by how quick Hamilton was.

The incumbent double world champion finishing behind a rookie in the title standings (albeit on count back with the same number of points and wins) is an arse smacking any way you cut it. Alonso was certainly surprised by Hamilton's speed. And he had very little answer for it either.

For me, Schumacher's most impressive years were seasons like 95, 97 and 98 - where he was able to challenge for the WDC in an inferior car. His class really shone through.

Indeed so.

Later on, winning in the absolute "class of the field" car should have been what it was - easy. I have no doubt that any number of recent decent drivers (Hakkinen, Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton, Button(?)) would have been as successful in the same situation.

[Richard]

Later on, winning in the absolute "class of the field" car should have been what it was - easy. I have no doubt that any number of recent decent drivers (Hakkinen, Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton, Button(?)) would have been as successful in the same situation.

.. or Irvine. He only missed the WDC in 99 by 2 points despite being the number 2 driver for the first half of the season until Schumacher's accident.

... or Barrichello. He was only beaten by Schumacher to the WDC in 02 and 04.