2014 Engine yin yang

[munudeges]

But aparently they do not have the confidence in their 2014 package to do so.

Unfortunately you have nothing to back this up with other than hearsay and wishes, and there has been a lot of counter hearsay that I haven't seen any sensible argument on that suggests things might well not transpire in the way that you hope next year.

[WhiteBlue]

WB, I think you are really reading too much into this, and it maybe goes back to your lack of fondness for Ferrari.

I don't think so. But it is natural that tiffosi will deny it. Ferrari must have a serious reason to change their operational pattern and non of the other explanations make a lot of sense unless they know they are going to loose Alonso. I prefer to think that Alonso has no valid alternative and Kimi is there to help bringing in more points. Ferrari would not need to piss off their star driver if they had a better car. So the move has some logic for the expectations.

[xpensive]

If I read you right WB, if a team wants two top-drivers it means they have a poor car, or does it only concern red cars?

[munudeges]

Using that same logic, given how far away everyone is from Red Bull right now then every team must have been in for Alonso and Raikkonen.

[GitanesBlondes]

WB, I think you are really reading too much into this, and it maybe goes back to your lack of fondness for Ferrari.

I don't think so. But it is natural that tiffosi will deny it. Ferrari must have a serious reason to change their operational pattern and non of the other explanations make a lot of sense unless they know they are going to loose Alonso. I prefer to think that Alonso has no valid alternative and Kimi is there to help bringing in more points. Ferrari would not need to piss off their star driver if they had a better car. So the move has some logic for the expectations.

More like Massa hasn't been pulling his weight, hence showing him the door in favor of Raikkonen. If they had a better car, there's nothing to say Massa would somehow be giving better performances.

Plus their technical staff has proven unable to provide developments that would keep them near Red Bull. There is nothing unique about them changing their operational pattern as they happened to do so many years ago, and ultimately ran off a number of championships as a result. Granted they are pillaging Enstone to do this, but there's really nothing outrageous about trying a different approach when the current one isn't working as well as they'd like.

[GitanesBlondes]

Ferrari turbo engines were always far behind the competition in the 80's.

Eh? Ferrari is the first team to win WCC with turbo (2 years in a row), and they would most likely get WDC as well had Villeneuve and Pironi crashes not happen.

Against only Renault & Hart, but when TAG/Porsche, Honda and BMW got into F1 Ferrari lagged behind for years winning only 6 races between '84 and '88(5 years)

5th, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 2nd. That's the constructor's standings with where Ferrari finished from 1981-1988, when the turbo era ended.

That's not really quite as terrible as you make it out to be.

[munudeges]

Ferrari would not need to piss off their star driver if they had a better car. So the move has some logic for the expectations.

Ferrari are pissing off their start driver because that's what he's doing to them. It's got nothing to do with some hypothetical assumption about their performance next year.

[GitanesBlondes]

Ferrari would not need to piss off their star driver if they had a better car. So the move has some logic for the expectations.

Ferrari are pissing off their start driver because that's what he's doing to them. It's got nothing to do with some hypothetical assumption about their performance next year.

Shades of Alain Prost 1991.

[munudeges]

Shades of Alain Prost 1991.

Not quite I don't think. I didn't really blame Prost for speaking out then because the team around that time were simply imploding. They took what John Barnard had produced the season before and completely flushed it down the toilet. Like Rossi criticising Ducati the Italians take a great exception to being criticised even in private, but certainly in public.

Whereas things might be frustrating right now it's not as if Ferrari are like what they were in the early 90s. They've made some new recruitments which I think are quite sensible and are about the best Ferrari could have made bar raiding Red Bull, and now wasn't the time for Alonso to go mouthing off.

[GitanesBlondes]

Shades of Alain Prost 1991.

Not quite I don't think. I didn't really blame Prost for speaking out then because the team around that time were simply imploding. They took what John Barnard had produced the season before and completely flushed it down the toilet. Like Rossi speaking criticising Ducati the Italians take a great exception to being criticised even in private, but certainly in public.

Whereas things might be frustrating right now it's not as if Ferrari are like what they were in the early 90s. They've made some new recruitments which I think are quite sensible and are about the best Ferrari could have made bar raiding Red Bull, and now wasn't the time for Alonso to go mouthing off.

Absolutely agree. Not really sure why Alonso hasn't figured out criticizing the Italians, especially in public settings, would result in any good fortune occurring. I grow tired of hearing about the "fiery temperament" he has. One wonders how much of that he picked up from Flavio at Renault. Anyhow, this all strays far away from 2014 engine ying yang stuff.

On topic, the fact remains, contrary to the assumptions of some here, there's nothing to indicate that Ferrari's 2014 powerplant will be down on what the estimated power outputs are in any shape, form, or way. To think otherwise, is just naive. That's all there is to it.

[xpensive]

Perhaps someone translated the german specialized press, i.e. AMuS, to him and he went ballistic over his 2014 prospect?

"No voy a conducir un motor de camión como Prost tuvo que!"

[munudeges]

Well, the German press will be his only source of information on 2014 now because he certainly won't be getting it from Ferrari.

There are a number of variables at play for next season as to how things will play out with these silly engines - the engines themselves, software (I can see quite a few reliability problems), fuel chemistry, traction and tyres........ I don't think there is any real point in anyone panicking over what engine they may or may not have, especially coming from Amus. I'd also be extremely wary of misdirection and something called reverse psychology as well......

[munudeges]

One wonders how much of that he picked up from Flavio at Renault.

A little off-topic I know, but I read an interesting piece from Autosport not long ago about how Flav and Renault used to simply let Alonso have a few outbursts, say nothing, let it pass and move on. Unfortunately, teams like McLaren and Ferrari deal with that kind of stuff in rather different ways.

[xpensive]

Alain Prost said something similar about Jean Alesi, the blue-eyed French-Sicilian had a terrible temper.

On topic, I believe that journos of the specialized press are little different than other journos, they create their own news.

[WhiteBlue]

If I read you right WB, if a team wants two top-drivers it means they have a poor car, or does it only concern red cars?

That is over interpretation by a country mile. Ferrari are not just any team. They claim to be a top team and they have consitently applied the opposite strategy to their chosen strategy of 2014. I'm not aware that there is a second team that would fit the same spec. Neither Mercedes, Red Bull, McLaren or Lotus have the same history and strategy change. The peculiarity of the u-turn is supporting the theory - which by ghe way is not an original WB theory but shared by some senior paddock experts (non German by the way).