New qualifying format...

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dot235
dot235
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Joined: 11 Feb 2016, 11:59

Re: New qualifying format...

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Alright so now we know that most likely they're gonna change it yet again before Bahrain GP.

How about this:

leave the Q1 as it is but revert Q2 and Q3 to their old formats?
That's pretty much best of both worlds and should leave everyone more or less happy. Technical car problems at the very start of Q1 or big lock-up on your first flying lap and you are likely out, so it would still mix up the grid (but not to the artificial extent) and it won't rob us of the Q2 and Q3 excitement.

Or let's say, during Q2 and Q3 knock out only 2 cars at the start of the session to force everyone go out as soon as it starts and then proceed normally?

There are many ways to go about this. Many ways that wouldn't screw it up. :idea:
Last edited by dot235 on 19 Mar 2016, 23:03, edited 2 times in total.

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henry
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Re: New qualifying format...

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bhall II wrote:
FoxHound wrote:Firstly, the point is we get cars out on track pushing to the last, trying to get as good a lap time after the "penalty" is added.
I think a better idea might be to set starting positions on both ends of the grid after every qualifying lap. Something like this...

L1: Out of all 22 drivers, the fastest is awarded P1; the slowest is awarded P22.
L2: Out of the remaining 20 drivers, the fastest is awarded P2; the slowest is awarded P21.
L3: Out of the remaining 18 drivers, the fastest is awarded P3; the slowest is awarded P20

...and so on until the grid is set.

It would be a sort of sprint that lasts 11 laps with no shortage of action on-track. As a positive side effect, it would also offer more TV coverage for teams not in the lead pack. Either way, it would certainly be more sporting than a system that penalizes success.
I think that's an interesting idea although current tyres make it difficult to achieve.

I understand your desire for sporting but I think the issue is that aero, tyres and the interpretation of sporting regs on track limits and crowding all over-reward performance in qualifying as opposed to racing and race craft. A change that shifts this balance towards racing wouldn't be a penalisation of success but, rather, a way of making it possible that talents other than one lap speed are rewarded.

Nonetheless it would still only paper over the cracks. F1, and much other Motorsport, has been ruined by the overemphasis on aerodynamics. I see no solution and it might be that a constant tinkering with qualification rules might act as a palliative, providing some relief as F1 squabbles itself into irrelevance.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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nevill3
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Re: New qualifying format...

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The old style qualifying format worked, this new format didn't provide the mixing up of the grid that was it's intended goal. The new format failed and provided less entertainment so should be scrapped. As has been said already, we watch this sport to see the best drivers pushing to the limits in an effort to win.

We don't need time penalties or win ballasts because that would be unsporting!

I think one way to improve qualifying would be to award points for the final grid position you attain whilst using last years three sessions, maybe only for the drivers championship though, this would encourage teams to push that little bit more to gain an extra position or two even when they know they will not break into the next session.

The winners should never be penalised for winning, ever...... :twisted:

Sport is entertaining because of the nature of competition not because the fun has been contrived by manipulating the rules to give a better show.
Dominant teams come and go but I personally follow my favourite driver right through the race, keeping tabs on their individual battle. They are not at the front at the moment but they are still racing and have the same opportunities to "win" just as every other driver that comes to the grid. It may not be pole and the winners champagne but to improve and beat your nearest rivals is still a success.

If they want to provide a spectacle then let the drivers race in the morning in a sprint race in equal machinery instead of being driven round on the back of a milk float waving at half empty grandstands.
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Felipe 92
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Joined: 16 Dec 2013, 15:22

Re: New qualifying format...

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Penalizing fastest/best driver and team is ridiculous.
Let`s apply that to other sports :
Football - Barca players must play barefoot
Tennis - Djokovic should use table tennis racquet
100 m sprint - first 10m Bolt must jump on one leg

I don`t want to see somebody winning championship just because methuselah Bernie and "if I don`t win I`m gonna pick up my toys and go home" Horner/Mateschitz manipulated rules to provide more "show".

Henk
Henk
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Joined: 19 May 2015, 13:22

Re: New qualifying format...

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I have somewhat changed my mind over this new format. I thought it was going to be really predictable and skewed towards the fastest teams. The first 2 rows were predictable but the rest of the grid has been pretty mixed up. The main reason I liked it was because of about 3 minutes of Q2 where it worked great. There was some real tension.

I think that tension could be carried through all the sessions. Q1 was a disaster, because some team just didn't get their act together, but should be better in the future. At the end of each session there was too much time left for too few cars. A few things they could do are:
- Eliminations start 90 seconds later since the final two can finish their lap under the chequered flag.
- Skip 1 elimination in the middle of Q2 and Q3 and then eliminate 2 cars the next time. This will give 1 extra car the time to refuel and try again.
- Just eliminate the cars, that are not going to get out in time, right away in Q2 and Q3. That would be the bottom two or three in the session.
- 2017 rules should include something to make refuelling quicker.

With these changes it is still important to get your banker right, or you're out. The "problem"(I know, I know) with the previous set of rules was that there was either no car on track or every car on track. Q3 was mostly following a car on an out lap, then the first 2 sectors of 1 car, followed by 50 seconds watching the pit straight with cars crossing the line. I always found that incredibly boring.

Bhall's rules sound awesome also. Great strategy games and gambling which lap to push.

renatope
renatope
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Re: New qualifying format...

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Altough one can argue that Q1 was a mess, I pretty much enjoyed the action and it sure caught the attention of the viewers much more than the old format. Q2 I also liked, however Q3 was really as others said a disaster.
To me the ideal solution would be leaving Q3 as it was before, and leaving Q2 and Q1 with the elimination system, maybe with some changes like the one suggested by someone here with more time between the elimination and then eliminating 2 cars at once, in order to give the drivers the chance to have another go.
So, I think it's not the end of the world, if F1 thinks this system didn't work, then go back to the other one for the next races and case closed.

mika vs michael
mika vs michael
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Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 01:35

Re: New qualifying format...

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Qualifying should be all about banging fast laps. Low fuel run with softest tyre available. If you want cars running around then you opt for another system like a 10 lap sprint race to determine the grid. The starting position for that 10 lap sprint is the reverse order of the previous gp. if you don't want to penalise the fastest drivers-cars too much then you go for a second 10 lap sprint where the starting grid is determined by the order they finished the first 10 lap sprint. in the end the starting grid of the race is determined by the order they finished the 2nd 10 lap sprint. No refuelling or changing tyres should be allowed during the 10 lap sprints. Tyre change only if there is a puncture. then you have full time action but this is not qualifying...not a f1 qualifying...
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smellybeard
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Re: New qualifying format...

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An hour on friday and another on saturday has never been beaten, to my mind.

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djos
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Re: New qualifying format...

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It's official, the FiA broke something that didn't need fixing, qually was rubbish!
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: New qualifying format...

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That is all that needs to be said!
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dans79
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Re: New qualifying format...

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My fix is simple, go back to the old format, and if you want to spice it up for the fans, give them as many qualifying tires as they need.
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Cannonballer
Cannonballer
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Joined: 29 Apr 2015, 03:12

Re: New qualifying format...

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Knock me over with a feather, common sense prevailed...

F1 team heads agree unanimously to revert to old qualifying format
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... ld-formate!
Wazari wrote: There's a saying in Japan, He might be higher than testicles on a giraffe...........

E46erak
E46erak
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Joined: 17 Dec 2013, 04:08

Re: New qualifying format...

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Thank goodness for that! I was afraid I wouldn't be watching any of those garbage quali sessions for the rest of the season. All we want is cars on the track, pushing the limits. "Ragged action" is exciting by itself.

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djos
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Re: New qualifying format...

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Cannonballer wrote:Knock me over with a feather, common sense prevailed...

F1 team heads agree unanimously to revert to old qualifying format
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... ld-formate!
Hooray! Apparently the race promoters are behind this round of stupidity!
"In downforce we trust"

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GTO99
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Re: New qualifying format...

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=D>