Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[zyphro]

I wonder if this saga will go the same way as Rossi & Ducati. His patience will run out soon enough, three years and the team hasn't shown a large improvement (in contrast his driving has improved significantly and is always on the upward trend). My theory is that, the Singapore upgrades will show if this team is capable of defeating its own jinx: being able to develop good solutions during a season.

I doubt he'd want to retire again win-less and I doubt he needs the money. I'd imagine he wants to know the time-frame of when Mercedes will become a winning team (if ever); he certainly doesn't have the luxury of having time on his side. From where I'm stood, first and foremost, he wants to win. And if Mercedes cannot offer that, he'd ought to look elsewhere.

[marcush.]

sauber has NO technical director + 70mill € budget compare with MGPs 3 kings ,the Hutt and the Con + an estimated budged of say 250mill €...and look at the development rate so far this year -I think nobody in the world can see many positives in MGPs ability of in Season development.

[FoxHound]

sauber has NO technical director + 70mill € budget compare with MGPs 3 kings ,the Hutt and the Con + an estimated budged of say 250mill €...and look at the development rate so far this year -I think nobody in the world can see many positives in MGPs ability of in Season development.

Right. But why do you work in absolutes?

[Morteza]

sauber has NO technical director + 70mill € budget compare with MGPs 3 kings ,the Hutt and the Con + an estimated budged of say 250mill €...and look at the development rate so far this year -I think nobody in the world can see many positives in MGPs ability of in Season development.

That's so true and at the same time painful for Mercedes fans. Such comparison makes them look like a bunch of monkeys running a team. In-season development has never been their thing. They were always too late for that

[marcush.]

Because we are roughly speaking of the same time scale comaring Sauber with MGP ....Sauber bought a works team back from BMW in a state of sorry ..good fascility a little cash from BMW to make the next season and not much else top speak off ....not even money to drop the BMW name.

Compare to MGP champions ,money ,same engine everything...and what has come off it in all those years ? I don´t think it´s allowed to just look at the rise they have this year ,if we allow ourselves to judge this as an improvement...and look how they failed to adress their shortcomings and instead hired more and more senior staff

[wunderkind]

sauber has NO technical director + 70mill € budget compare with MGPs 3 kings ,the Hutt and the Con + an estimated budged of say 250mill €...and look at the development rate so far this year -I think nobody in the world can see many positives in MGPs ability of in Season development.

I absolutely agree Mercedes-AMG's development so far this season has been found wanting to say the least. Only the people within the team would know why the pace of development grinded to a virtual halt when other teams have continued to develop their cars at impressive rates.

Maybe it had to do with Bigois' departure and Elliot's arrival/promotion and the brief vacuum in the succession process. Yes, the tyre degradation issue is still largely unsolved. But the new rear-end aero package and the time it took them to design and make it tells me they might have solved part of the problem. Surely the new rear-end update they have come up with is primarily aimed at solving the tyre degradation issue. The DDRS might just be an aside.

Bell, Costa, and Willis might be great engineers in their respective capacities, but I'm not sure how good they are at fixing someone's else design. I'm not sure if it's a valid comparison. But some tailors are only good at making suits but have no idea about making alterations to suits made by another tailor. Maybe we are seeing a similar case here?

For the n'th time, i am a Sauber fan. But I am still of the view that Sauber had fluked their way into the performance sweet spot this year rather than by design. The fact that their qualifying and race results have been inconsistent so far tells me they are having trouble keeping up with the pace of development of other teams.

[naniSauber]

Sauber a small team has maid it clear "We are coming for you Mercedes"
I find that awesome this season may the best team win

Nd according to this Hamilton is just about set to go to Mercedes
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formul ... ilton.html

[FoxHound]

Maybe it had to do with Bigois' departure and Elliot's arrival/promotion and the brief vacuum in the succession process.

Agreed, this is what I'm inclined to think rather than Marcush doom and gloom assessment. No developments to speak of for around 4 months which is shocking really, It must be said. Then Elliot joins and they turn up at Magny cours with 4 major updates. There is definitely a link there.

[marcush.]

the link is more -they have changed model size for the windtunnel and had to adapt the tunnel for the 60% scale ...before they could hope for updates they needed to correlate.
I think the 50% model scale is just too small to incorporate hot exhaust effects with confidence in results...so maybe that´s why they were reluctant to employ the new exhaust last year and were finally deciding to switch to 60% this year as they realised there was still something to find from tuning exhausts for aero...

[schumifan]

is it really that silly to expect that hamilton will just stay at maclaren and schumi at mercedes - like brundle herbert and these boys have said, i think it will just stay as it is

clearly over time things do change, but mike is their to be with mercedes and lewis to be with his team - i think it is to be expected that at other teams there would be movement, but with these two, i just do not think anything will happen until schu retires which could be difficult to take a guess at. for all we know he will drive till the end of 2017 and then call it a day.

seriously

will be helpful to get that confirmation soon though

[diego1960]

Ι like the scenario x, it would be a hell of a team to watch! But surely, in that (imaginary) case, MSC would have to sit 2013 out? I dont think that it would be that easy to come back again, his age seems to hinder him at just that, adaptability. Still, I may dream that he gets his hands on a competitive machine and not a piece of sh*t.

As for the updates, they follow a strange route this year, instead of bringing bits and pieces almost in every race, they brought 2 large update packages (counting Singapore in) that may be game changers. Maybe Ross knows that the design team/mechanics are a bunch of clowns and the only way to reach success is by momentarily stunning the opponents and lucking into a win? Maybe 2 wins are the minimum expectation given by the Stuttgart suits in order to keep the team up and running?

Then again, Occam's razor, the solution might just be that the change from the 50% model to the 60% one as the departure of Bigois are the reasons for the delay, masked behind the "understanding the tyres" excuse. You can never know with Ross, cunning as he is.

Last but not least, Sauber may have lucked into having a better car than expected, but the foundations where there all along, I remember since last year how easy their car was on the tyres compared to our "tyre-eating" monster. Maybe hire their suspension guy? Oh wait, we have Costa, the maker of the "soft" Ferraris...

[marcush.]

if all was that easy ,why making a big fuzz of it ? Schumacher is waiting for something -when obviously Brawn ,the hutt and zetsche desperately wanted to get it sealed and done as early as Monaco .
So why would Schumacher on one hand push away any decision till october but on the other hand hint at his value for a brand and his confidence to be good for another championship title..
If he wanted to just to carry on and things were developing as intended -if he had faith in MGP to turn the corner being on full song 2013 i´d think he would not have even bothered to leave us in a state of uncertainty.

I even go one step further:Schumacher has told the team to leave if targets are not met till october...this would perfectly explain why MGP is in contact with Hamilton who must be considered as the single available prospect representing Schumachers calibre at least in terms of speed .
Let´s face it :A Rosberg/Sutil Rosberg Hülk or Rosberg diResta Combo is just to weak in terms of marketing strength to be sold to the board....

So Hamilton has taken up the ball and is playing it to test Mclarens urge to retain him .Schumacher is putting pressure on MGP to deliver(upgrades + reliability) ..mind you ..he was in France to check the progress of the team (!!) .
Mclaren has started negotiations with the hot property perez to show Hamsy..we got alternatives and we won´t pay a shilling more for your services...

So ...the question is : can MERC convince Michael they are a championship team now and where may he end if Michael decides -no ,I have had enough of hollow announcements.. For me all teams would love to get hold of him ...as he is the biggest value outside of the car +he is as good as anyone in the top ten if you look at it conservatively.

[SeijaKessen]

Ah but you gentlemen forget, Red Bull's contract with Renault Sport runs through 2016.

But of course, contracts in Formula One are bullet-proof and none has been renegotiated since the great flood.

Now wait a minute...Monsieur Todt certainly would have to be considerate about the remaining French interest in F1, no?

[xpensive]

As bhall wrote, if Mateschitz would get the idea of changing engine or drivers he would certainly find a way to do so.

Hopefully the W03 will find new life in Singapore with these modifications, giving MSC the confidence to sign for 2013 and by that ending the speculations over Hamilton. I'm sure they have talked, but on Hamilton's management's initiative.

[zyphro]

I'm with Marcush: Mercedes need Michael more than Michael needs Mercedes. He could quite easily find a drive elsewhere, hence the recent comments about himself being valuable to sponsors.