2014 Engine yin yang

[marcush.]

as one who predicted this shortfall relative to the claims being made last year .....
it's simplest for me to say at this point that I feel vindicated by events

is the next move the replacement of the UK flowmeter with eg one from elsewhere in Europe ?
by some process that will conveniently give the appearance of eliminating these difficulties ?

to even think it may be possible to measure flow in such a hostile environment with an accuracy of 0.5% reliable and reproducable is outright hilarious.
Especially when considering it is entirely possible to allocate very precisely a fuel volume to a car.
so you get 100kg of fuel for the race + 10kg for Qualy .end of story .Demonstrate a empty system at the start of Q1 and at opening of Parc ferme.
Car gets its fuel allocation on official FIA weighbridge .So you got exactly all necessary information (car equipped with a reference weighbridge wheelset to erase errors due to marbles and tyre wear influence)...
considering the effects of disqualification uncertainty one would think the top three cars have to be weighed BEFORE the ceremony to avoid nasty things with provisional winners ?

[dren]

I say the regulations get changed.

[Bredd]

1.5% ey? If they can't get it sorted we know which end of the 1.5% most of the teams are going to be.

[Holm86]

I say the regulations get changed.

This has also been discussed in the real engine thread. And i also believe the regulations must change. Its either that or find another supplier that can deliver. Which i dont think exists.

1.5% ey? If they can't get it sorted we know which end of the 1.5% most of the teams are going to be.

The is 1.5% inaccuracy of the sensor. This is not the same as saying that you could just run 1.5% more fuel.

And 1.5% more fuel on a 600hp engine would be 9hp.

[rjsa]

And 1.5% more fuel on a 600hp engine would be 9hp.

18Hp if you consider it can go either side.

[Holm86]

And 1.5% more fuel on a 600hp engine would be 9hp.

18Hp if you consider it can go either side.

I know. I also wrote that in the other thread. But here it was mentioned as a performance advantage. Im just saying that you can't count on this inaccuracy and just increase the fuel flow by 1.5%. And the performance gain would only be 9 hp.

[Just_a_fan]

http://fortyonesix.com/news/1308/pirell ... f1-tyre-si

If the Mercedes unit is really 100bhp up on the others at the start of next season then you have to think that the Merc drivers are looking good for the title. That much extra grunt means they can run more downforce everywhere and be no slower on the straights. Setting up the throttle map to give the rear tyres a lighter time in the initial throttle application shouldn't be too difficult to manage.

[Anon123]

http://fortyonesix.com/news/1308/pirell ... f1-tyre-si

If the Mercedes unit is really 100bhp up on the others at the start of next season then you have to think that the Merc drivers are looking good for the title. That much extra grunt means they can run more downforce everywhere and be no slower on the straights. Setting up the throttle map to give the rear tyres a lighter time in the initial throttle application shouldn't be too difficult to manage.

They could only use that extra horse on the straights and they'd still have a huge advantage, assuming the rumours are true of course.

[Just_a_fan]

No, the extra horses work everywhere. They allow you to run more downforce in the corners for no loss of top speed on the straights. So your top speed is the same but you carry more apex speed in the corners. Thus your lap time drops. That's the point. That's how the RB9 dominates - it makes more downforce than anyone else but they also have managed to make the car reasonably slippery by making the extra downforce from the floor of the car - the one bit that gives relatively efficient downforce. That's why they have spent so much effort on the rear of the sidepods and the area around the rear tyre footplate.

Don't forget that downforce creates drag and the power absorbed by drag rises with the cube of the speed rise.

[aral]

http://fortyonesix.com/news/1308/pirell ... f1-tyre-si

If the Mercedes unit is really 100bhp up on the others at the start of next season then you have to think that the Merc drivers are looking good for the title. That much extra grunt means they can run more downforce everywhere and be no slower on the straights. Setting up the throttle map to give the rear tyres a lighter time in the initial throttle application shouldn't be too difficult to manage.

The supposed BHP advantage of 100, has been totally debunked. It is physically impossible due to rev limit and fuel flow. Also, NOBODY has released BHP figures, not even Merc, so how on earth can anyone make a comparison?

[OO7]

http://fortyonesix.com/news/1308/pirell ... f1-tyre-si

If the Mercedes unit is really 100bhp up on the others at the start of next season then you have to think that the Merc drivers are looking good for the title. That much extra grunt means they can run more downforce everywhere and be no slower on the straights. Setting up the throttle map to give the rear tyres a lighter time in the initial throttle application shouldn't be too difficult to manage.

It is practically impossible for Mercedes to have such an advantage, but even if they did the additional torque plus running higher downforce would obliterate the Pirelli's within the first 4 corners.

[Tim.Wright]

http://fortyonesix.com/news/1308/pirell ... f1-tyre-si

If the Mercedes unit is really 100bhp up on the others at the start of next season then you have to think that the Merc drivers are looking good for the title. That much extra grunt means they can run more downforce everywhere and be no slower on the straights. Setting up the throttle map to give the rear tyres a lighter time in the initial throttle application shouldn't be too difficult to manage.

The supposed BHP advantage of 100, has been totally debunked. It is physically impossible due to rev limit and fuel flow. Also, NOBODY has released BHP figures, not even Merc, so how on earth can anyone make a comparison?

Not to mention that it was several months ago that these figures were thrown about.

I think anyone who mentions it in the future should have to buy a beer for every F1T member...

[Anon123]

No, the extra horses work everywhere. They allow you to run more downforce in the corners for no loss of top speed on the straights. So your top speed is the same but you carry more apex speed in the corners. Thus your lap time drops. That's the point. That's how the RB9 dominates - it makes more downforce than anyone else but they also have managed to make the car reasonably slippery by making the extra downforce from the floor of the car - the one bit that gives relatively efficient downforce. That's why they have spent so much effort on the rear of the sidepods and the area around the rear tyre footplate.

Don't forget that downforce creates drag and the power absorbed by drag rises with the cube of the speed rise.

I was thinking about tyre wear when I made my comment, if tyre wear is an issue they could tone down the power in the corners and still have a big advantage simply because of the extra straight line speed.

[PlatinumZealot]

No, the extra horses work everywhere. They allow you to run more downforce in the corners for no loss of top speed on the straights. So your top speed is the same but you carry more apex speed in the corners. Thus your lap time drops. That's the point. That's how the RB9 dominates - it makes more downforce than anyone else but they also have managed to make the car reasonably slippery by making the extra downforce from the floor of the car - the one bit that gives relatively efficient downforce. That's why they have spent so much effort on the rear of the sidepods and the area around the rear tyre footplate.

Don't forget that downforce creates drag and the power absorbed by drag rises with the cube of the speed rise.

Gonna burn through fuel faster too. 100hp is a lot of fuel even when considering the percentage of time spent on the straights.

[dans79]

I bet they have just come up with a way to flatten out the low rpm torque curve, and move the max hp lower in the rpm range.
If they can do that and minimize drag with the more efficient cooling system they have been working on, they might appear to have an extra 100HP.

If memory serves Mercedes, has a lot more experience with turbo technology than the other manufactures.