Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[marcush.]

to me it seems they lacck a basic understanding of what is driving the cars performance.
so why is it taking you the best part of say 7 months to realise there is some worth in the coanda exhaust and then come up with a solution that´s not really working ...one could see how quickly RedBulls ,Ferraris and Mclarens exhaust treatment evolved and morphed up to the point of scrapping complete sidepodshapes ,adding deflectors and what have you.
It does not make much sense to copy last years development of Mclaren really ,when you aim at beating them all.Considering apart from HRt and lotus everyone found the budget to implement coanda before MGP it just does not look very convincing.

[user001]

to me it seems they lacck a basic understanding of what is driving the cars performance.
so why is it taking you the best part of say 7 months to realise there is some worth in the coanda exhaust and then come up with a solution that´s not really working ...one could see how quickly RedBulls ,Ferraris and Mclarens exhaust treatment evolved and morphed up to the point of scrapping complete sidepodshapes ,adding deflectors and what have you.
It does not make much sense to copy last years development of Mclaren really ,when you aim at beating them all.Considering apart from HRt and lotus everyone found the budget to implement coanda before MGP it just does not look very convincing.

I'm absolutely with you. And the "excuse" or explanation from Ross Brawn was, that they wanted to concentrate and understand the tyres in the first place as also Lotus and Williams managed to have a decent car without a coanda exhaust. Maybe this delay has something to do with Loïc Bigois "Departure" or/and the new windtunnel. I don't know. Maybe further "investments" were on hold because there was the danger Merc would quit regarding not signing the new Concorde Agreement...

This all does not look very encouraging as the new exhaust also does not work as they wish nor brings the long waited brakethrough. Only cause you want to be a winner and yes have the ressources doesn't mean you are one. A F1 team has to be strong as a whole not only with top guys at the forefront. I doubt that Merc will make a great step. Not only in 2013 also 2014.

Honda Toyota BMW have also invested big in their teams but did not manage to win the title. How many wins did BMW achieve in their time with Sauber?

[marcush.]

The windtunnel is not really new ....it was build in 2005/6 as i understand.they never used it to accomodate 100% -wich is the capacity of the unit partly because the rules did not allow it -maybe BGP001 was the sole car that was part developed in big size there-who knows.

Why it took them till this september to change modelsize to 60% (which effectively hints at the conondrum update was still developped with the 50% model..)is the big question pending.

[Morteza]

May I ask a question? How good is their facility compared to other top F1 teams? Are their CFD department and wind tunnels good enough?

[FoxHound]

May I ask a question? How good is their facility compared to other top F1 teams? Are their CFD department and wind tunnels good enough?

This is a proper question. I dont think anyone of us here can answer that presently given the amount of changes that this team has seen over the last 12-18 months.

[Richard]

Some posts have fallen into the eternal abyss, doomed to go around and around and around on the treadmill of eternity for as long as the protagonists shall live....

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13178&view=unread#unread

[snoop1050]

May I ask a question? How good is their facility compared to other top F1 teams? Are their CFD department and wind tunnels good enough?

This is a proper question. I dont think anyone of us here can answer that presently given the amount of changes that this team has seen over the last 12-18 months.

werent honda suposed to have one of the best and most upto date facilities out of all the teams?

Q&A about hondas new wind tunnel at brackley from 2005
http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2005/12/3874.html

it seems they had a halfscale wind tunnel aswell..

please tell me this isnt what mercedes were using and they literally meant it when they said they switched to a full scale wind tunnel when everyone assumed they only switched the model

Barrichello reveals wind tunnel woes at Honda (2007 article)
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/8/6624.html

“They believe that our wind tunnel’s calibration is wrong and because of that everything that has been developed has not been effective,” explained Barrichello on his official website. “We will have to change many things, even parts of the structure inside the wind tunnel, and it will be about a month until we are able to see changes.”

seems it must have been recalibrated in 2007 but also sounds alot like mercedes for the past few years? maybe time to do like ferrari and shut it down and get it looked at?

[FoxHound]

With the upgrade from 50% to 60% sized models, you can bet they had a look at that.
The whole thing looks to me as though they gave up on 2012 from early on. After the W03 was developed and Costa arrives, he had intricate knowledge of what plagued Ferrari(windtunnel).Troubleshooting. Something this team need dearly. Problem ascertained and we have the upgrade. Took it's time but it finished in July, perfect time for Costa to sharpen his virtual pencil and get cracking on the W04. How I see it anyways.

[marcush.]

I´d say MGPs facilities are as good as anyones -this was a full blown works team before in Hondas possession .In 2005/6 they build a state of the art Closed section 100% windtunnel on site (under willis).In the heyday they had around 800 workforce .
and in 2008 ,according to Nick Fry the best facility in formula 1 -that´s why Ross brawn joined...
One can be sure it´s not an old shed they are working in -BAR started racing only in 1999...
Mind you all are raving about Saubers top notch facilty -which was opened already in 2004!...one would assume a later tunnel should be a bit more advanced.
Almost every team had issues with the closed section tunnels at the start .Getting the walls shape seems to be not trivial.
I rmember hearing similar things of the Toyota tunnel(s).
The model size was changed from start of september -no ways the coander(!) exhaust was developped in 60%...

[snoop1050]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmHkzMwgkbg[/youtube]

[diego1960]

This team is slowly becoming excellent,
.
.
.
.
at getting their ass*s kicked by every midfield team.


This time it's the Saubers and Force Indias. Lewis is going to need patience. Oh, and MSC outqualifies Nico again, as usual this year.

[clipsy1H]

in these moments i'm happy for his retirement this team is...... if next year Ross will not come with something extraordinary this team will disband.

Good Luck Lewis i'm sure you'll need (your only hope is Brawn)

[Morteza]

in these moments i'm happy for his retirement this team is...... if next year Ross will not come with something extraordinary this team will disband.

Good Luck Lewis i'm sure you'll need (your only hope is Brawn)

Exactly. I wonder what Hamilton is thinking at the moment.

[Dragonfly]

So I think we can reasonably conclude that after so much waiting they made downgrades to the car.

[clipsy1H]

in these moments i'm happy for his retirement this team is...... if next year Ross will not come with something extraordinary this team will disband.

Good Luck Lewis i'm sure you'll need (your only hope is Brawn)

Exactly. I wonder what Hamilton is thinking at the moment.

he looks good because he know w04 can't be worse than this (but never say never) will be a shock for him if can't fight for Q3