Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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vall
vall
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Joined: 04 Nov 2008, 21:31

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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richard_leeds wrote:
Paul Oz wrote:Do you want to be entertained or just watch them play follow my leader?
+1 A welcome relief after recent years when stewards interfered with the outcome.

oh dear, why not interfere? If someone gain position or whatever in an unfair way otr braking the rule, then what? Leave think as they are? I don't think so.

andrew
andrew
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Joined: 16 Feb 2010, 15:08
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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richard_leeds wrote:
jonathan189 wrote:Both Alonso and Hamilton plainly cut the pit lane entry on separate occasions.

Surely that is a clear cut penalty.

If they don't apply the rules, all the drivers will ignore them... and next year we'll see every driver cutting that corner.
err... not as far as I am aware. Drivers often cross the white line that defines the edge of the track. Are you saying everyone doing that should be punished?
I think strictly speaking, the white lines define the edge of the track and a car should not go over these but it is one of the rules that seems to be "good practice" rather than something which is regularly enforced (except in Spa 2008 causing a bit of a hoo-haa). If you consider somewhere like Monaco or Valencia, the cars can't go over the white lines for obvious reasons and it would be a real test of the drivers skills if this rule was regularly enforced.

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Paul Oz
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Joined: 17 Apr 2010, 10:50
Location: Leamington Spa, UK

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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vall wrote:
Paul Oz wrote:Do you want to be entertained or just watch them play follow my leader?
If you want entertainment this is for you:

http://us.wwe.com/

F1 is still a sport and technical challenge. This is the reason I do not like wet races: they often produce random results and not the best package of the day wins. We already had enough wet races this year and I hope the rest pf the season will be dry, but I doubt it.
So you don't watch F1 to be entertained? Strange. Semantics I suspect.

F1 is a sport and technical challenge for sure - but are you discounting tactics and judgement? IMO wet races show the talents and skills exponentially better, where split second decisions have even greater effect than in the dry. Luck doesnt come into it.....

Richard
Richard
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Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
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Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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Paul Oz wrote:Has all of this highlighted a possible problem with the release guidelines? If a midfield garaged driver comes in with one of the top seeded right behind them for example - the top seeded will be back out in the pit lane before t'other gets moving because of the distance between the garages, so the driver who entered the pit lane first, would have to conceded??
I'd mentioned that earlier. It would be a problem if the system got as pedantic as some on here seem to want.

Lets say Vettel and Timo Glock pit at the same time. Glock would be out of his box first (because it is at the entrance end) and be within 55m when Vettel is ready to come out. Vettel would have to pause and say "after you my good friend", and Glock would reply "sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar".

Elsewhere on the track, a car that ran wide or missed the pit lane would wait patiently on the sidelines for Charlie Whiting to give him permission to re-enter the race. I'm sure someone could conjure up some sort of multi-faith act of contrition to be undertaken for their transgression of the holy white line.

...

Hunt and Senna would be spinning in their graves if they read some of the posts in this thread.

Racing should be about drivers showing who's got the biggest balls, and spectators saying "OMFG how do they do that ?". If the drivers are happy with events, then so should we. We are just observers standing on the sidelines.

komninosm
komninosm
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Joined: 05 Apr 2009, 18:41
Location: Macedonia

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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segedunum wrote:
komninosm wrote:How could he yield when Vettel put his wheel in the McLaren side?
Errrr, Vettel was in front. He had the position. End of. That's the way it works.

Take a look at the picture you posted above. Hamilton has lost the position. There is no reason to be where he is.
If Hamilton breaked he would have caused the wheels to collide and a serious accident.
Hmmmmm, no. He eases off the accelerator and drops in behind into the pit lane. Easy. He would have caused a serious accident where he was if he'd ran over a wheel gun. Trying to justify his action of staying in the pit lane box zone, trying to get alongside Vettel, on the basis of safety is.........bizarre, quite frankly.
You're also deluded about the facts of the pit entry...
Errrrr, no. Hamilton entered the pit lane by crossing the white line. That's very clear. The pictures and rules on that are extremely clear, or at least they should be.
No, take a look at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oYjCBooeDI
That's what Vettel should have done too. He should stick to his line not push Hamilton on the pit crews.

Take a look at Hamilton's on-board. At some point Vettel's illegal manoeuvres put his rear wheel between the McLaren wheels. If Hamilton had braked then he would have caused a collision. Vettel's erratic driving made Hamilton cautionary about breaking to get behind him. FFS give him some room a$$hat V.

Finally please provide a video about the entry. Put up or shut up.

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siskue2005
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Joined: 11 May 2007, 21:50

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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andrew wrote:
A reprimand is nothing more than a telling off like everyone gets when they a 5 years old (and who listens to them? :lol: ) and is just a waste of time really.

If you watch the pit stops, I think Vettel was moving first. If they were released at the same time, then they would not have been side by side and Vettel has further to travel.

The way I see it is, the driver who is already in the pitlane has right of way and the other should concede. Vettel didn't help things by moving over a little bit, but that can be chalked up to red mist at being passed where a driver probably doesn't expect to be passed and a telling off is closer to the appropriate punishment for Vettel, though is still light.

Personnally, I would think that these would be appropriate punishments:
Vettel - 5 or 10 place drop in qualifying in Spain.
Hamilton - considering the stewards have already had reason to have words (Malaysia), he should start at the back in Spain.
Reprimand means warning!
If you repeat it again, you will get punished! :roll:

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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Shumacher does seem to have problems with exiting the slow speeds. I think he is not fully adjusted to lack of traction control. Otherwise he still has the skills, but lacks speed and endurance compared to the others.
well today's race was good, now we see who has taken rain master crown from Shumi, and who the pretenders are. :lol:
Any one who doubts Hamilton is not in a class by himslelf, should have all doubts erased today. All others have been laid to the wayside.
Alonso and Hamilton are the ones to watch after today, if these guys every get a straight forward race.. :shock:
Come Europe these 2 will be racking up wins with the kind of driving they are doing.

About Button, i think he has something no other driver has, not even Alonso or Shumacher.
He has clairvoyance, which is a priceless tool. He gets the big picture when everyone else is confused about what to do next. He is the wisest driver on track.
He said in the conference that it's not outright speed, but that will change in a dry race, but at least he is maximizing his opportunities.
For Sure!!

Richard
Richard
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Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
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Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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vall wrote: oh dear, why not interfere? If someone gain position or whatever in an unfair way otr braking the rule, then what? Leave think as they are? I don't think so.
Only one driver gained position by breaking a rule today, and he got a drive through penalty.

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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andrew wrote:
richard_leeds wrote:
jonathan189 wrote:Both Alonso and Hamilton plainly cut the pit lane entry on separate occasions.

Surely that is a clear cut penalty.

If they don't apply the rules, all the drivers will ignore them... and next year we'll see every driver cutting that corner.
err... not as far as I am aware. Drivers often cross the white line that defines the edge of the track. Are you saying everyone doing that should be punished?
I think strictly speaking, the white lines define the edge of the track and a car should not go over these but it is one of the rules that seems to be "good practice" rather than something which is regularly enforced (except in Spa 2008 causing a bit of a hoo-haa). If you consider somewhere like Monaco or Valencia, the cars can't go over the white lines for obvious reasons and it would be a real test of the drivers skills if this rule was regularly enforced.
Then why is the little red and white curb outside the white line? What is a curb doing off track? :wink:
For Sure!!

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Paul Oz
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Joined: 17 Apr 2010, 10:50
Location: Leamington Spa, UK

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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richard_leeds wrote: Racing should be about drivers showing who's got the biggest balls, and spectators saying "OMFG how do they do that ?". If the drivers are happy with events, then so should we. We are just observers standing on the sidelines.
That sir, i the quote of the day for me! And why I'm a Lewis fan. However.... would Webber ever be happy about everything #-o

komninosm
komninosm
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Location: Macedonia

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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segedunum wrote:
komninosm wrote:This proves my point clearly. Even crazy Montoya had enough sense to veer to the outside line.
No it doesn't. If Montoya had clearly got out ahead there then he would have been within his rights to stay ahead, maintain his line and have Raikkonen drop in behind. He wouldn't be obligated to simply let Raikkonen in. Raikkonen simply had track position there. Notice that Raikkonen did not have to cross the white line to force the issue as Hamilton did.

When two drivers are neck-and-neck then you will get situations side-by-side like that, but the Vettel and Hamilton situation is not the same because Vettel is clearly ahead. He simply doesn't have to move over to let someone else alongside him in the pitlane. It's that simple. To blame Vettel because he didn't simply move over for Hamilton over is just utter lunacy.
Blablabla...
Vettel was not clearly ahead, they were side by side almost and same could be said of Montoya, until he veered to the left to give some room to fellow driver in pits. RAi was not ahead of Montoya and he didn't cross any line because Montoya didn't push him into the pit crews. What Vettel does is very incosiderate for the pit crews. Hamilton was just following his lollipop man. Vettel knows he's got to pass him, he should have gone to the left from the start to avoid collision.
Vettel is not clearly ahead. Hamilton is alongside him from the start, even after the spin he is half a car length only behind, so Vettel is breaking the rules by driving his car over the car next to him, it's worse than blocking.

komninosm
komninosm
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Location: Macedonia

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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segedunum wrote:
komninosm wrote:
vall wrote:The comment above says it all, no? He should have braked and lined up behind Vettel, not driving in the blue zone all the way out of the pit.
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... 10680.html
"Back out on the track, Hamilton then dished out a driving lesson to Vettel, passing him with ease as he outfoxed both Red Bulls in one move on Lap 12."

-Where as Webber crashed on Hamilton's rear on a previous race when he was passing Alonso.
What the hell has that got to do with the comment you're replying to?
It was clearly a taunt on my part, your mental faculties are failing you today aren't they? ;p

andrew
andrew
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Joined: 16 Feb 2010, 15:08
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Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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ringo wrote:Then why is the little red and white curb outside the white line? What is a curb doing off track? :wink:
And that highlights the pointlessness of the rule of the whitelines being the edge of teh track. Take away the kerbs I say! :lol:

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Paul Oz
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Joined: 17 Apr 2010, 10:50
Location: Leamington Spa, UK

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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ringo wrote: Any one who doubts Hamilton is not in a class by himslelf, should have all doubts erased today. All others have been laid to the wayside.
Alonso and Hamilton are the ones to watch after today, if these guys every get a straight forward race.. :shock:
Come Europe these 2 will be racking up wins with the kind of driving they are doing.
Spot on

komninosm
komninosm
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Location: Macedonia

Re: Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

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segedunum wrote:
komninosm wrote:Hmm they seem pretty identical passes to me. The only difference is that Vettel tried to overtake Hamilton with no room (dangerously)
You're very deluded I'm afraid. What actually happened was that Vettel moved to the right hand side of the track to enter the pit lane, and entered it normally.

Hamilton didn't seem to have his brain in gear and stayed to the left, realised late that he wanted to enter the pit lane and would lose a place and so moved right over the white line to stay ahead. He even bizarrely points to the right in his cockpit because he knows he's in the wrong position and knows Vettel is there.

Vettel entered the pit lane normally, Hamilton didn't. As simple as.
LOL You're deluded it seems. From the videos I posted their lines seem nearly identical. How about you post some vids that show your point instead of your imaginary descriptions of your delusions?