Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[SeijaKessen]

By the standards of McLaren's recent cars the MP4/9 was a disappointment, failing to win any races (the first time McLaren had failed to win a race since 1980) and hampered by poor reliability and performance from its Peugeot engine (taken from the Peugeot 905 sportscar that won Le Mans twice). Early in the season McLaren team boss Ron Dennis had believed rivalry between the French manufacturer and compatriots Renault would lead to rapid development and performance. As the season progressed the engines suffered regular, and frequently spectacular, failures and the team began to doubt Peugeot's commitment to the project. By late 1994 the team announced it had parted company with the engine supplier in favour of a long term deal with Mercedes.

sourced from Wikipedia.

12 Peugeot engine failures during the season I seem to read on other sites. Allied to being underpowered and heavy(engine sourced from sportscars), it's quite remarkable you think Peugeot would be winning with McLaren. McLaren ditched them for good reason.....and Peugeot went on to win....nothing in F1.

So much for that, eh Seija?

Actually Dennis only went with peugoet because the engines were free. If he had opted for the Lamborghini V12 which Senna had tried out and loved, Senna would have stayed at McLaren. But Dennis would have to pay for those so he ditched the idea and Senna said cheers. The rest is history...

THe Ilmor Mercedes Engine was also free in a deal where mercedes would ramp up involvement with the team in a sort of technology exchange for sponsorship deal. Mercedes sucked at road car engines at the time, especially finding it problematic communicating what they wanted out of ECU's to Bosch. Their own electronics was also quite poor and McLaren had some interesting solutions around electro mechanical gearbox actuation for fully and semi automatic functioning, CVT technology they were developing, and EBD integration for higher performance cars.
What MErcedes learned form McLaren they trickled down to theri raod car engine line by the early 21st century.

Not necessarily so, a McLaren + Lamborghini-deal would have included the latter's parent company Chrysler, why the engines most probably been for free and the 1994 car conclusively named McLaren-Chrysler MP4-9.

Imagine that for history.

[Forza]

marcush@ I saw few comments from him so I post them in this thread. His view is probably based on his working experience. To make comments about work processes we would need details flow charts and diagrams presenting teams' inner structure. Than we could make comparison with other teams.

Also adding latest interview with Brawn

Ross Brawn says Mercedes is hopefully the upcoming circuits will suit the W03 as it turns its attentions to the 2013 car.

Having started the season strongly - scoring the first win since its comeback with victory in the Chinese Grand Prix - Mercedes has slipped off the pace and Michael Schumacher was 13th in Korea while Nico Rosberg retired early. Brawn, however, believes the car will be more suited to at least three of the final four circuits.

"I think these next few tracks coming up - we're not sure about Austin yet - but they tend to come a little bit towards the nature of our car," Brawn said. "[Korea was] not necessarily the best circuit for us either, particularly the last complex, but the circuits we've got coming up if you remember last year we were a bit stronger in this batch of circuits. And there are still some things we want to try on the car during these four races particularly for next year."

Brawn admitted that Mercedes' focus was switching to 2013, but he said the team is not completely writing off this season with Sauber closing in on fifth in the constructors' championship.

"A balanced approach [to 2012 and 2013] I think. Our chassis team are designing next year's car; there are certain directions they want to confirm. The aerodynamic changes you saw [on Friday] we were trying on the rear wing are primarily for next year. So there's a mix.

"We don't want to sacrifice the remainder of this year for next year but it's a pretty strong aspect. At Suzuka we had two different rear suspension geometries we tried, we tried some other fundamental differences, so we're plugging those things in to the programme but we still want to have a pretty respectable performance for the rest of the year."
Source

[Raptor22]

Seija, Dennis angled that deal toward Chrysler but remember at that time it was tough times for Chrysler they were not interested in giving away free engines. They aslo insisted on the Lamborghini name but did not want to pump any money into the engines development (they'didn't have any...)

[snoop1050]

Ross Brawn says Mercedes is hopefully the upcoming circuits will suit the W03 as it turns its attentions to the 2013 car.

with teh lack of upgrades this season i thought they turned to the 2013 car months ago or is this just so people dont ask where the upgrades are whilst every other team is bringing parts that are also relevant to next year?

the usual hopefully the next circuits will suit our car better line aswell, a merc pr statement wouldnt be complete without it

[SeijaKessen]

Seija, Dennis angled that deal toward Chrysler but remember at that time it was tough times for Chrysler they were not interested in giving away free engines. They aslo insisted on the Lamborghini name but did not want to pump any money into the engines development (they'didn't have any...)

They started making changes to the Lamborghini V12's based on the feedback Senna gave them during the MP4/8 Lambo test.

Just ask Bob Lutz about the agreement he had with Ron the Con.

[SeijaKessen]

My opinion of Ross Brawn is no secret, it's quite enough to look at his CV, just a machine operator at MrM's old Bicester workshop who were good at playing the game with his mentor, peaking as the latter's ambassador to the preferred winner?

Formula One under Moseley & Ecclestone became so corrupt and terror-reigned that nobody dared question that this emperor was without clothes. The simple fact that not even Daimler and DrZ dares to remove him, is ample evidence of this.

[Raptor22]

Seija, Dennis angled that deal toward Chrysler but remember at that time it was tough times for Chrysler they were not interested in giving away free engines. They aslo insisted on the Lamborghini name but did not want to pump any money into the engines development (they'didn't have any...)

They started making changes to the Lamborghini V12's based on the feedback Senna gave them during the MP4/8 Lambo test.

Just ask Bob Lutz about the agreement he had with Ron the Con.

THats right but the free engines from Peugeot and the promise of technical partnership was too good to pass up. Only after the 2nd race did they realise Peugeot was not serious.

[Richard]

My opinion of Ross Brawn is no secret, it's quite enough to look at his CV, just a machine operator at MrM's old Bicester workshop .

Yup, there are quite a few highly successful Team Principals with similar backgrounds who went on to lead WCC teams. Jack Brabham, Ron Dennis and Enzo Ferrari started out as spanner men. Frank Williams was a travelling grocery salesman, Ken Tyrell was a timber merchant. Christian Horner went straight into motorsport after school.

What we can learn from this is that nearly all WCC winning TPs have no university education, one could say that personality and guile are the dominant traits for leading a team and negotiating F1 politics.

ps I'm not offering opinion about Brawn, just pointing out that his CV isn't different from other highly successful TPs.

[clipsy1H]

guys this season for Mercedes is over... they don't give a **** on Michael last races ... what they want is to test things for next season......
The greatest driver in history of this sport will retire fighting for P12-16 in these moments i'm happy with his decision but also sad because he could go to another team and beat this %$#@!

[SeijaKessen]

My opinion of Ross Brawn is no secret, it's quite enough to look at his CV, just a machine operator at MrM's old Bicester workshop .

Yup, there are quiet a few highly successful Team Principals with similar backgrounds who went on to lead WCC teams. Jack Brabham, Ron Dennis and Enzo Ferrari started out as spanner men. Frank Williams was a travelling grocery salesman, Ken Tyrell was a timber merchant. Christian Horner went straight into motorsport after school.

What we can learn from this is that nearly all WCC winning TPs have no university education, one could say that personality and guile are the dominant traits for leading a team and negotiating F1 politics.

ps I'm not offering opinion about Brawn, just pointing out that his CV isn't different from other highly successful TPs.

But Formula One Technical directors, hell yeah, which was the issue here.

On the topic of uneducated TPs, Jean Todt would probably disagree and he has had some success, no?

[Vasconia]

guys this season for Mercedes is over... they don't give a **** on Michael last races ... what they want is to test things for next season......
The greatest driver in history of this sport will retire fighting for P12-16 in these moments i'm happy with his decision but also sad because he could go to another team and beat this %$#@!

Michaels personal retribution should have been join Sauber and beat Mercedes next season. Sadly, the only thing that Mercedes has achieved is to kill Michaels motivation to keep fighting.

[FoxHound]

Well at least next year you wont have to worry about Micheal or Mercedes.

[SeijaKessen]

guys this season for Mercedes is over... they don't give a **** on Michael last races ... what they want is to test things for next season......
The greatest driver in history of this sport will retire fighting for P12-16 in these moments i'm happy with his decision but also sad because he could go to another team and beat this %$#@!

Michaels personal retribution should have been join Sauber and beat Mercedes next season. Sadly, the only thing that Mercedes has achieved is to kill Michaels motivation to keep fighting.

Well, I really think the only reason Michael even joined up with MGP was because Ross blackmailed him over something.

[marcush.]

If it were blackmailing or plain payback time enforced by Brawn...Schumacher saved them from extinction ,that´s a fact.
The pyrruswin in china is long gone and aölmost forgotten ....and Schumacher kept the media interested in this team and prevented in a ways they were too harshly attacked by the media.

[SeijaKessen]

If it were blackmailing or plain payback time enforced by Brawn...Schumacher saved them from extinction ,that´s a fact.
The pyrruswin in china is long gone and aölmost forgotten ....and Schumacher kept the media interested in this team and prevented in a ways they were too harshly attacked by the media.

Well, to make the entire deal work, you know that the Hutt went to DrZ to tell him about how there was this bargain basement F1 team for sale, that just happened to win a championship the year before. When the Hutt told DrZ about how Michael Schumacher would come out of retirement and drive for the team if Merc would buy the team, DrZ was blinded by the stars in his eyes...and well that was how MGP was born.