2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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fiohaa wrote:
this 'it'll go back to processional racing' doesn't make any sense, i dont know how this bog standard argument gained fashion but its total rubbish.
-why would it be a procession with DRS?
[...]
it is clear that the people who support this tyre conservation racing are not Racing fans, in the purist sense of the word.
And how is DRS "pure" racing? If you want "pure" then DRS is out too.

I lived through the dull days of processional racing where places were swapped in the pits during refuelling stops. Although it wasn't racing on track back then either - it was go as fast as you think your car will go and survive whilst hoping those around you will fall away through reliability issues.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

SilverArrow
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Just_a_fan wrote:
myurr wrote:
SilverArrow wrote:No, you clearly aren't. These tires are against the spirit of this formula. I take it you're not a soccer fan? How about if we spread the posts so that more goals are scored? Might it interest you then? Save your WWII rant for another day.
Who appointed you sole arbiter of Formula One all of a sudden? Nine times out of ten those complaining loudest about any aspect of F1, including the tyres, are grumbling because they're perceived to be holding their favoured driver back.

Is F1 perfect? Awww hells no. Would super durable tyres fix everything? Nope, no siree.

F1's problems are many and compounded, mostly stemming from the very essence of F1. It's a super high tec sport with highly optimised and highly strung machinery, that is simultaneously incredibly sophisticated and horrifically restricted, with compromises riddled throughout the car, fighting it out using a concept invented over 100 years ago - putting a man in a machine and telling him to drive round a circuit as fast as he can. Long life tyres won't fix the aero problems, short braking distances, conservatism through long life parts, lining people up on the grid in performance order, etc. They won't even address the one problem you seek to address, that of cars running flat out the entire race distance. With long life parts that is never going to be possible. All drivers at all races will go through a phase of either saving engine life, gear box life, or fuel, no matter what you do with the tyres.

Most people that are defending Pirelli on here are doing so not because they think F1 is perfect, but because they do not believe you have any answers nor that you understand exactly what you are wishing for. Do you want zero degradation, minimal degradation and then the tyres fall off a cliff, minimal degradation and then the tyre runs out of rubber and bursts? What characteristics are you looking for and how do they match with what the rest of the car is capable of? How much fuel do you want to allow the cars to run with in order to be able to push the entire race? Where do you expect the trade off between fuel weight and performance over a race distance to fall? Do you expect race pace to be fast enough with a fuel load capable of running at 100% raw speed for the entire race distance to offset the speed penalty for carrying that weight?

F1 is all about compromise. Every single part on every single car is compromised in some way, where a trade off between the advantages its design brings compare to the disadvantages or an arbitrary rule forces the designers hand. Do you even understand what it is you are asking for whilst so rudely criticising anyone who disagrees?
Hear hear! An excellent argument, well formed and, no doubt, it will not be countered other than by straw men and ad hominems... such is the standard of this forum these days. :cry:
Whatever makes you happy. Just don't expect respect when you're all for turning F1 into WWE.

Stupidity needs no argument.

oT v1
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Looking forward to tomorrow for sure, I wish Hulk had tried in q3 to give Vettel a bit more to do but still, it's poised perfectly :)
The Power of Dreams

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turbof1
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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SilverArrow wrote: Whatever makes you happy. Just don't expect respect when you're all for turning F1 into WWE.

Stupidity needs no argument.
So we went from well argument comments to throwing insults? Aren't we all a bit above this?
#AeroFrodo

SilverArrow
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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turbof1 wrote:
SilverArrow wrote: Whatever makes you happy. Just don't expect respect when you're all for turning F1 into WWE.

Stupidity needs no argument.
So we went from well argument comments to throwing insults? Aren't we all a bit above this?
"Who appointed you sole arbiter of Formula One all of a sudden? Nine times out of ten those complaining loudest about any aspect of F1, including the tyres, are grumbling because they're perceived to be holding their favoured driver back."

"Hear hear! An excellent argument, well formed and, no doubt, it will not be countered other than by straw men and ad hominems... such is the standard of this forum these days. :cry:"


Pointing out stupidity is not the same as throwing insults. Personally I find it insulting to have that post labeled as an excellent argument...

Glyn
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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turbof1 wrote:It's one thing to have drivers look after their tyres; having tyres that can only be pushed to its limit for one single lap is on a whole other plane and imo, goes too far.

Might I remind everyone on what Pirelli claimed before this race:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc21bYeNFMg[/youtube]

They say the soft tyre would last 16 to 18 laps. When race weekend started, the soft tyre suddenly is a "qualifying tyre", telling they "intended this all along". In other words, they clearly messed up. They brought a tyre that is outright unfit for the track.
I thought they said the medium tyre had a duration of 16-18 laps...

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turbof1
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Well, look at the video. They clearly show in huge letters they claim the softs can go for 16-18 laps.
#AeroFrodo

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abw
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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turbof1 wrote:Well, look at the video. They clearly show in huge letters they claim the softs can go for 16-18 laps.
Actually, the graphic in the video says "16/18 laps." And 16/18 = 0.88... laps, which may prove closer to reality than 16 to 18 laps. Ha ha. We'll see. Certainly, any car that can milk another 15 fast race laps out the softs that it qualified on will be in a good position.

CHT
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Echo wrote:Is it only me or was the qualification a bit of a joke for the audience? I was sitting at the A-grandstand and pretty much nothing happened during the 1 hour qualification. The first 10 min of Q1 there was pretty much no cars on the track. I looked at the Red Bull team and they hadn´t even put their nosecone, tyres or the driver into the car when Q1 started! Even the official man speaking to everyone apologised for the long waiting!

The same thing happened in Q2 where everyone sat for more than 8 min waiting for anyone going out on the track. I mean yes, it is a tough sport with a lot of competition and waiting for the perfect condition is the ideal. But for the fans travelling to the track (which takes easily more than an hour with subway, or taking the car with highways full of trafic) it isnt a lot of fun.

I was probably most disappointed with Q3 which was basically 3 min of driving! Everyone went out as late as possible and did one lap and then went in again. Thats it! I feel F1 have become a sport where the audience isnt the priority number 1. What im trying to say is it feels like the teams nor the driver barley notices the fans are waiting for them to put their bloody cars on track and making a bit of a show. Instead they hide and barley even wink to the audience!

I know a lot of you are going to disagree so attack me as much as you want to. :-)

EDIT: Spelling errors. "Nor", "Barley", "are", "Bit", "Of, "A"
can fully understand your frustration and I am pretty sure Bernie is going to change that when teams goes to Bahrain.

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Cam
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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turbof1 wrote:Well, look at the video. They clearly show in huge letters they claim the softs can go for 16-18 laps.
Pirelli is right, when you can only drive the car at 50%. How exciting.
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godlameroso
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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6-8 laps on the softs tops otherwise they'll get eaten alive by the medium runners. Then again the medium runners will also have to go on the softs and they too will not be able to go more than 6-8 laps, possibly less.
Saishū kōnā

elclingo
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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“This was out of my hands,” said Webber. “I can’t be disappointed for my performance.”
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autos ... ds-critics

Glyn
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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abw wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Well, look at the video. They clearly show in huge letters they claim the softs can go for 16-18 laps.
Actually, the graphic in the video says "16/18 laps." And 16/18 = 0.88... laps, which may prove closer to reality than 16 to 18 laps. Ha ha. We'll see. Certainly, any car that can milk another 15 fast race laps out the softs that it qualified on will be in a good position.
Never mind the graphic, it is clearly an error.

Why would the man in the video talk about the medium tyre. Most of the video was about the medium tyre. Never did they mention the softs in the same way. And then put a graphic of the soft out of no-where.?

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abw
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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I confess I watched the video with the sound turned down. Naively assumed the graphics matched up with what the guy was saying.

Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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So very smooth! The Merc looks very good especially onboard

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr7v_uH1Ir8[/youtube]