Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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FoxHound
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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siskue2005 wrote:this years ferrari is not a 'brand new car" developed from a clean sheet

Actually, when you consider the banning of EBD, they needed a different ethos at the back. So they had to use those god awful exhausts at the start of the year.
Allied to this, the front of the car uses Pull-rod front suspension which is different from the push rods they ran for many years.
Image

The requirments are new geometries, set ups etc not to mention you have to be spot on in your tyre calculations, because if you get it wrong you don't have a reference to go back to.
Of course there are carry over parts, you still use the same engine, KERS and gearbox and the requirements for these will not have changed much from 2011 through to 2012. The packaging will be near the same, meaning your basic shape will be retained. There is very little scope for development on this front, due to the minimum mass regulations as well as the dimensions as stipulated by the FIA.
So when Adamski talks of a new car, he is saying the F2012 is a massive departure from the F150th.

Should Mercedes go forward and try pull rod front's, as well as a better rear end philosophy? Of course, and this is where I think there will naturally be some carry over parts from the W03, which cannot really be changed due to stringent regulations. However big changes are being mooted which can in this current formula be called a "new car".
JET set

Timstr
Timstr
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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I didn't know Bob Bell had moved to head up M-AMG engine operations:
[Ross Brawn]I have spent time with Lewis, Bob Bell from our engine group spent time with Lewis - so we all spent time with him to convince him to make the right move.
I wondered about Bell's new position when there were reports of John Owen taking over the TD (or Chief Designer?) role. This gives it away.
Source: http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews ... 13964.html

elf341
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Interesting interview.
A direct reference to identifying Bigois as a weak link?
... the performance in the second half has been disappointing. But the good news is that we understand some of the reasons for it. We have made some changes in the organization and if you take people out, those who step in need some time to settle in. That was the case with our aerodynamics group

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clipsy1H
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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elf341 wrote:Interesting interview.
A direct reference to identifying Bigois as a weak link?
very interesting .... i don't know how real is that they wanted to keep Michael but he wasn't sure what to do.... Brawn start discussion with Lewis few months ago so i'm sure when Michael have contract on desk (if that ever happened?) Ross prayed to God that Michael will not sign that paper.
Also Ross make sure he's the boss.... he already sent an arrow to Lauda :mrgreen: w04 will be a step forward but after this interview i'm not sure if that will be enough for title.

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dren
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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As much as I am a fan of this team, I wouldn't expect anything close to a title. I'd wish for podiums, but don't expect them. Lotus will likely be very good next year, along with Ferrari, Mclaren and Red Bull.
Honda!

marcush.
marcush.
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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we have understood some of the reasons for underperforming ... :roll: At this point they should not be all occupied with understanding BUT being able to look back at the solutions implemented and the results that were possible with what was learned..and a look ahead at the points still pending..
Amazingly they lost momentum due to the loss of Bigois as he acknowledges...so he was the guy to be responsible for the aero of W03 but the new kids or was them kings have not found anything to make w03 any better ...fascinating.Is w03 just the result of being an orphane ?

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FoxHound
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Take Newey away from Red Bull, and let's see how they operate.
Mercedes had 1 king for the car, Bigois, and it didn't work.

Bell as it transpires, works withing engines and the engine integration.

Leaving Willis, who as it transpires, was working to ascertain windtunnel weaknesses and then upgrade the those findings.

Leaving the new guy Elliott to deal with Bigois' ideas.

Seems the "kings" have been busy.
JET set

marcush.
marcush.
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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FoxHound wrote:Take Newey away from Red Bull, and let's see how they operate.
Mercedes had 1 king for the car, Bigois, and it didn't work.

Bell as it transpires, works withing engines and the engine integration.

Leaving Willis, who as it transpires, was working to ascertain windtunnel weaknesses and then upgrade the those findings.

Leaving the new guy Elliott to deal with Bigois' ideas.

Seems the "kings" have been busy.
Comeon Brawn was quoted in ONE Interview as being occupied with engines..that may well be a misunderstanding or just something written or said wrongly by accident .Brawn could well have meant engineering instead of engine ,no?
Why should the TD of the team work on engines ?
He is an Aeronautical engineer so not just an aerodynamicist (same as Newey)but worked as Aero guy later leader of R&D and then as TD ...I don´t see him doing just engine installations - whic would reduce him to cooling systems and a few bits in the engine periphery...not even the hydraulic suspension components...i don´t buy this.

Mika1
Mika1
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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dren wrote:As much as I am a fan of this team, I wouldn't expect anything close to a title. I'd wish for podiums, but don't expect them. Lotus will likely be very good next year, along with Ferrari, Mclaren and Red Bull.
Same here. A race win and a few podiums would be good.
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Cocles
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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marcush. wrote:
FoxHound wrote:Take Newey away from Red Bull, and let's see how they operate.
Mercedes had 1 king for the car, Bigois, and it didn't work.

Bell as it transpires, works withing engines and the engine integration.

Leaving Willis, who as it transpires, was working to ascertain windtunnel weaknesses and then upgrade the those findings.

Leaving the new guy Elliott to deal with Bigois' ideas.

Seems the "kings" have been busy.
Comeon Brawn was quoted in ONE Interview as being occupied with engines..that may well be a misunderstanding or just something written or said wrongly by accident .Brawn could well have meant engineering instead of engine ,no?
Why should the TD of the team work on engines ?
He is an Aeronautical engineer so not just an aerodynamicist (same as Newey)but worked as Aero guy later leader of R&D and then as TD ...I don´t see him doing just engine installations - whic would reduce him to cooling systems and a few bits in the engine periphery...not even the hydraulic suspension components...i don´t buy this.
Oh, come on! When we have some useless soundbite, you take it at face value and analyze it into the ground, but when we actually do have some quality info from the team on F1.com itself you claim that Brawn must have been misunderstood and toss it aside.

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FoxHound
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Absolutley Cocles.

We have it clearly stated, Bell as part of the engine group.

Costa is a chassis man right?

Willis? Aero dude that knows the old tunnel like the back of his hand right?

Ellis? Aero man with fairly decent credentials at Lotus, with less resources than Mercedes.

These arent kings....these are dukes with set dominions.
JET set

Timstr
Timstr
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Integration means everything and with 2014 in mind, it's very plausible that Bob Bell now is the linking pin between the chassis team and the powertrain group.
Costa as Engineering Director oversees car design, with Elliott (Chief Aerodynamicist) and Owen (Chief Designer) reporting to him. Willis is responsible for aero and vehicle dynamics simulation technology (windtunnel/CFD/Driver in the loop simulator).
Makes sense.

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mep
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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I just noticed Niki has aabar now on his cap. Is that new or did he have that for a while now?
I wonder if he will change the base colour of the cap to silver one day.

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Morteza
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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mep wrote:I just noticed Niki has aabar now on his cap. Is that new or did he have that for a while now?
I wonder if he will change the base colour of the cap to silver one day.
That logo has been on his caps for quite a while now. Before he became a part of Mercedes F1 team.
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

marcush.
marcush.
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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so we have it written in stone-
Bob Bell is now responsible for engine or powertrain integration and no longer Technical director of the team...