Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2014

[Cam]

So all the championships he's won, all the drivers he's helped put on the mantle, all the silverware collected, all the champagne tasted, all the controversies, the deaths, the highs, the lows, the sacrifices he's made for F1 at the cost of his family, the long hours, long weeks, long years... and yes, the constant bites at the ankles from some....yep, bet that had nothing to do with it.

We should be glad Newey knows when to leave - let some new blood in - while being around to help when required. God knows some others in F1 simply don't take the hint.

If Newey chooses to leave when Mercedes are dominating, and he goes on the basis of the reasons you gave...then that is not the competitive mastermind I assumed him to be.
And let's just say Newey's "sacrifices" have made him and his family better off to over 50 million dollars.
My 2 cent's here is that now the engine's have come into play, his aerodynamic genius cannot make up the difference to a team who have integrated their engine and accompanied systems into a dynamic package.
Had Red Bull and Renault spent 3 years developing the RB10, I'm pretty sure we would see more RB10 victories than we otherwise have.

How competitive can an aero guy be when the engine makes the difference? We can agree to disagree. I'd prefer to still have loud v8's and see aero tweaks than what we have now. I guess so does Newey.

[FoxHound]

Cam,

Ask Ferrari and Mercedes how competitive they were in years where the engine could not be allowed to make the difference. You are not happy this, year fine. You are citing engines as the differentiator and foregoing the engine freeze of the last 6/7 years.

You want little bendy winglets, fuel burnt to produce downforce....great.

I wanna see a car, that means everything on a car, chassis, engine and aero, be able to make a difference.
Having aero dominate will always lead to a Newey based car winning 7 times out of 10....how is that competitive?

As I've said before, the formula aint perfect, but out of its flaws it actually addresses one of F1's major weaknesses. That being one of aero domination and the other disciplines(which I'm more interested in) playing a pedantry role.

Yea lets agree to disagree.

[Cam]

Ferrari came close, twice. It seems Merc gave up and spent years on 2014. So they didn't put in as much effort by choice, that's on them. You can't complain about rules if you don't put in the effort. That's how I see it.

This was about Newey leaving and his reasons. He had stated he doesn't like the rules or direction. As a leading figure in F1, we would be wise to consider his opinion. I'm not saying he's right, but someone of his standing can't be easily dismissed.

[Cam]

Energy drink ban warning to teams,the story is telling the racing teams to be ready for the energy drink money being taking away by Gov't like tobacco money was.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/motogp/ ... ng-motogp/

And troll Cam...why attack the messenger when you should attack the Gov't with your vote!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????

The link you gave goes to an 404 error. Still waiting for source.

If there is a possibility that energy drinks and the like can be pulled from sporting advertising, I'd be interested to read it. I cannot find anything like that. There has been talk of removing gambling though.

The France ban was lifted in 2008 too. So I cannot see any issues for Red Bull here.

The gun jibe was tongue in cheek about the hypocrisy of 'safety'. Sorry I offended the negative vote caster. Nothing against the US. Hypocrisy knows no borders, or media.

[basti313]

So all the championships he's won, all the drivers he's helped put on the mantle, all the silverware collected, all the champagne tasted, all the controversies, the deaths, the highs, the lows, the sacrifices he's made for F1 at the cost of his family, the long hours, long weeks, long years... and yes, the constant bites at the ankles from some....yep, bet that had nothing to do with it.

We should be glad Newey knows when to leave - let some new blood in - while being around to help when required. God knows some others in F1 simply don't take the hint.

If Newey chooses to leave when Mercedes are dominating, and he goes on the basis of the reasons you gave...then that is not the competitive mastermind I assumed him to be.
And let's just say Newey's "sacrifices" have made him and his family better off to over 50 million dollars.
My 2 cent's here is that now the engine's have come into play, his aerodynamic genius cannot make up the difference to a team who have integrated their engine and accompanied systems into a dynamic package.
Had Red Bull and Renault spent 3 years developing the RB10, I'm pretty sure we would see more RB10 victories than we otherwise have.

How competitive can an aero guy be when the engine makes the difference? We can agree to disagree. I'd prefer to still have loud v8's and see aero tweaks than what we have now. I guess so does Newey.

The problem is somewhere else:
-Redbull and Merc are possibly comparable when it comes to their chassis and aero solution. But Merc is 1second faster due to the engine.
-The other Merc powered cars are not very good, they loose 1 second due to their bad chassis and aero.
-The other Merc powered cars will sort out their chassis and aero problems. So if the engines would be freezed as they are now we would have a Formula Merc and a Formula Redbull/Ferrari. Because like now, the Merc package is so good that they drive in their own league.

And domination of one freezed engine is pure poison for Formula 1. It is something completely different than dominant aero solutions that can be copied and are developed by every team themselves. With a dominant engine we will have a Formula 1 like seasons during the tire war when only one tire was competitive...

[djos]

Personally I don't like this engine freeze one bit, I mean what is the point of having brand new technology in the form of the PU's if the engine manufactures aren't allowed to develop them?

The freeze on the Natmo V8's was fair enough, they were very close to peak performance all round but the PU's are brand spanking new and at the beginning of their development life cycle.

[beelsebob]

Don't get me wrong, I think the engine freeze is ridiculous - it's exactly what has given us an aero dominated sport (it's made it impossible to develop the thing that would compensate for poor aero). I just think it's hypocritical to say "it's not fair, Merc get an engine advantage" when RBR gained an aero advantage from their homologated engine for 4 years running

[Cam]

But they didn't get a one-sided advantage did they? It was known what Renault had (cold blowing) before exhaust blown diffusers were seen and the other teams themselves had hot blowing available to them, difference is one team did better with it. Ferrari had the same opportunity for most parts, and they didn't see it. Most pundits agree hot blowing was better but by the time they figured what was happening Red Bull was too far in front and looming reg changes made any attempt to develop futile.

So if the regs had been stable, perhaps the hot blowing teams may have surpassed the bulls? We'll never know. Pity any dominance is freaked out over and knee jerk changes happen.

[djos]

I personally don't like engine freezes full stop - i think the engine regs where at their best when the 1 engine & transmission rule per weekend rulle was in force.

If engine manufactures can't develop their engines and innovate then there's really not much reason to be there.

Instead of the FIA banning various materials, have a rule that says you can use any material that is used in at least 500,000 road cars (irrespective of oem). Various technologies shouldn't be banned either and the same "road car" rule should apply.

F1 should be all about pushing the limits of technology and I for one was really cheesed off when road car relevant technologies like active suspension where banned. I had less of an issue with TC and LC being banned but only because those two technologies where really unneeded driver aids and did detract from the show.

/rant

[djos]

Ps, I'm not suggesting a free for all, I think engine capacity, energy capacity and fuel tank capacity limits are sensible.

Fuel flow not so much, if a team wants to make 1500hp hand grenades that won't last 5 races then that's their problem.

[FoxHound]

How competitive can an aero guy be when the engine makes the difference? We can agree to disagree. I'd prefer to still have loud v8's and see aero tweaks than what we have now. I guess so does Newey.

Lets mirror that to reflect engine manufacturers.
How competitive can an engine guy be when aero makes the difference?
Because that is the situation Mercedes and Ferrari found themselves in whilst Red bull made whoopee. And all kudos to Red Bull.

I want loud engines too, but this is sidetracking as a loud or quiet engine is neither here nor there in terms of performance differentiation against aero. None at all actually.

[FoxHound]

Ferrari came close, twice. It seems Merc gave up and spent years on 2014. So they didn't put in as much effort by choice, that's on them. You can't complain about rules if you don't put in the effort. That's how I see it.

This was about Newey leaving and his reasons. He had stated he doesn't like the rules or direction. As a leading figure in F1, we would be wise to consider his opinion. I'm not saying he's right, but someone of his standing can't be easily dismissed.

Mercedes did not give up, they restructured due to the state of the team they'd bought. Takes time, and the W range was never compromised for the W05. It still runs frics as used in the 04 and 03 iterations.
The engine side is really where the difference came in, and how it integrated into the package. An advantage of building your own PU.
And tifosi would not call the last 6 years successful, regardless of how close it was.

Re Newey: Yes it is Newey's choice, and he has his view.
But it's also a political statement. One that Mercedes and Ferrari did not play during the years of their(red bull)success.

[Cam]

How competitive can an aero guy be when the engine makes the difference? We can agree to disagree. I'd prefer to still have loud v8's and see aero tweaks than what we have now. I guess so does Newey.

Lets mirror that to reflect engine manufacturers.
How competitive can an engine guy be when aero makes the difference?
Because that is the situation Mercedes and Ferrari found themselves in whilst Red bull made whoopee. And all kudos to Red Bull.

I want loud engines too, but this is sidetracking as a loud or quiet engine is neither here nor there in terms of performance differentiation against aero. None at all actually.

The engine guy works with the aero guy. Thats what red bull did. The others didn't. They still had the same opportunities.

[Cam]

Mercedes did not give up, they restructured due to the state of the team they'd bought. Takes time, and the W range was never compromised for the W05. It a political statement.

No. It's a choice. They stopped competing to focus on the new regs. That was their choice. Don't complain the aero rules were no good when you don't even try.

The reverse could also be said. Because Red Bull pushed all the way, they suffered. You can read it both ways.

Edit. Kudos to Merc, it's paying off. I have no issues when a team does this, only when they show up to make the numbers on the grid with no effort to try and win, then lambast said rules.

[CHT]

this is a very complex and expensive power unit we are talking about, FIA should have let the manufacturer continue to develop the engine throughout this season before the freeze it.

Coincidentally, Ferrari has joined in to express their unhappiness about this year regulations. I am not sure if behind the scene RBR and Ferrari are planning something