Mercedes W13

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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SparkyAMG
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Joined: 13 May 2014, 13:30

Re: Mercedes W13

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The car is definitely draggy compared to the RB18 and Ferrari, but does at least produce a lot of downforce.

They'll be competitive in Singapore if they can get the tyres switched on for quali.

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Mercedes W13

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I dont think they will do well with their heavy car. Understeer will kill their hopes. Singapore looks like a track that needs. strong front end for the technical parts as well as very good traction.
For Sure!!

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F1Krof
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Joined: 22 Feb 2016, 21:17

Re: Mercedes W13

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SparkyAMG wrote:
11 Sep 2022, 18:14
The car is definitely draggy compared to the RB18 and Ferrari, but does at least produce a lot of downforce.

They'll be competitive in Singapore if they can get the tyres switched on for quali.
Nah, I have no hopes. The car does not like the bumps, and Singapore is one of the bumpiest tracks on the calendar. They will have to increase the ride height to cope with the bumps and in process will kill the performance. Also they are on the heavy side of the chassis, I don't think this will help them any bit.
Wroom wroom

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SparkyAMG
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Joined: 13 May 2014, 13:30

Re: Mercedes W13

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F1Krof wrote:
12 Sep 2022, 09:53
SparkyAMG wrote:
11 Sep 2022, 18:14
The car is definitely draggy compared to the RB18 and Ferrari, but does at least produce a lot of downforce.

They'll be competitive in Singapore if they can get the tyres switched on for quali.
Nah, I have no hopes. The car does not like the bumps, and Singapore is one of the bumpiest tracks on the calendar. They will have to increase the ride height to cope with the bumps and in process will kill the performance. Also they are on the heavy side of the chassis, I don't think this will help them any bit.
A lot of people said the same about Hungary, and then that it wouldn't deal with the Zandvort banking and we know how both races panned out.

It's not as bad over bumps now as it used to be so they're not going to have to raise the ride-height like they did in Spa because of Eau Rouge.

They've been decent in the slow / medium speed stuff for a while now.

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Shakeman
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Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 13:31
Location: UK

Re: Mercedes W13

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SparkyAMG wrote:
11 Sep 2022, 18:14
The car is definitely draggy compared to the RB18 and Ferrari, but does at least produce a lot of downforce.

They'll be competitive in Singapore if they can get the tyres switched on for quali.
I not saying the car isn't draggy it may be but there are other issues which can make the car look draggy when in fact it is not i.e. traction out of corners onto a long straight. A fraction less traction performance in this critical phase can result in meters at the end of a decent straight. As soon as Lewis was booted with Softs yesterday the car woke up and became a missile easily despatching the cars ahead.

The W13 has struggled with getting the tyres into the right window but when it switches on the tyres or the track conditions come towards the car the W13 can look a very different beast. I'd be surprised if this wasn't a major focus for the W14.

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AMG.Tzan
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Joined: 24 Jan 2013, 01:35
Location: Greece

Re: Mercedes W13

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Shakeman wrote:
12 Sep 2022, 10:21
SparkyAMG wrote:
11 Sep 2022, 18:14
The car is definitely draggy compared to the RB18 and Ferrari, but does at least produce a lot of downforce.

They'll be competitive in Singapore if they can get the tyres switched on for quali.
I not saying the car isn't draggy it may be but there are other issues which can make the car look draggy when in fact it is not i.e. traction out of corners onto a long straight. A fraction less traction performance in this critical phase can result in meters at the end of a decent straight. As soon as Lewis was booted with Softs yesterday the car woke up and became a missile easily despatching the cars ahead.

The W13 has struggled with getting the tyres into the right window but when it switches on the tyres or the track conditions come towards the car the W13 can look a very different beast. I'd be surprised if this wasn't a major focus for the W14.
I can't really see how they'll be good at Singapore with such a bad surface this track has!

Singapore is quite a bumpy circuit (at least until 2019) and I expect all teams (except Red Bull of course) to have problems with bouncing! Mercedes needs to run their car as low as possible to get great results and I guess they won't be able to do that in Singapore.

Any news on upgrades though?? Will they continue upgrading this car to the end of the year?? Then that means they'll continue on with the same concept next year...
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

mkay
mkay
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Joined: 21 May 2010, 21:30

Re: Mercedes W13

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
12 Sep 2022, 14:27
Any news on upgrades though?? Will they continue upgrading this car to the end of the year?? Then that means they'll continue on with the same concept next year...
Pretty sure there won't be any further upgrade to this car as all focus has now shifted to 2023. I doubt Mercedes will push very hard to secure P2 in the WCC, as that would mean less CFD/wind tunnel time in 1H 2023, which they sorely need.

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Shakeman
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Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 13:31
Location: UK

Re: Mercedes W13

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
12 Sep 2022, 14:27
I can't really see how they'll be good at Singapore with such a bad surface this track has!
Who knows with this car, it could respond well to higher track temps and go well!

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Mercedes W13

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Shakeman wrote:
12 Sep 2022, 10:21
SparkyAMG wrote:
11 Sep 2022, 18:14
The car is definitely draggy compared to the RB18 and Ferrari, but does at least produce a lot of downforce.

They'll be competitive in Singapore if they can get the tyres switched on for quali.
I not saying the car isn't draggy it may be but there are other issues which can make the car look draggy when in fact it is not i.e. traction out of corners onto a long straight.
Top speed in Monza is drag limited (i.e the straight is so long that all cars reach the point where the drag force equals the engine power and are no longer able to accelerate). Traction is irrelevant.
A lion must kill its prey.

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Mercedes W13

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Where do they reach top speed on Monza and for how long?
Traction still factors, as you cannot separate it from engine power and wing level.
You would have to know the compromize the team made for the car in every other part of the track.
For Sure!!

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Mercedes W13

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ringo wrote:
13 Sep 2022, 04:55
Where do they reach top speed on Monza and for how long?
Traction still factors, as you cannot separate it from engine power and wing level.
You would have to know the compromize the team made for the car in every other part of the track.
Again, traction doesn't impact top speed in a place like Monza. The hit the drag limited terminal velocity near the pitlane exit in Monza. Merc could have the best traction in the world, and it wouldn't change their top speed at the end of the main straight. That's what "drag limited" means.
A lion must kill its prey.

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Stu
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Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Mercedes W13

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There is a lot of borderline OFF TOPIC talk here, back to THE CAR, please!
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

mantikos
mantikos
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Joined: 02 Mar 2011, 17:35

Re: Mercedes W13

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AR3-GP wrote:
12 Sep 2022, 21:16
Shakeman wrote:
12 Sep 2022, 10:21
SparkyAMG wrote:
11 Sep 2022, 18:14
The car is definitely draggy compared to the RB18 and Ferrari, but does at least produce a lot of downforce.

They'll be competitive in Singapore if they can get the tyres switched on for quali.
I not saying the car isn't draggy it may be but there are other issues which can make the car look draggy when in fact it is not i.e. traction out of corners onto a long straight.
Top speed in Monza is drag limited (i.e the straight is so long that all cars reach the point where the drag force equals the engine power and are no longer able to accelerate). Traction is irrelevant.
It is also deployment limited and they were clipping as they admitted and were barely slower than Ferrari down the straight, like 4 km/h?

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organic
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Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Mercedes W13

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Close-up of the single element beam wing from Monza

Image

AMuS

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Mercedes W13

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The top lip of the diffuser on the W13 is basically flat i.e. no up turn. The lip on the RB18 appears to have a large up turn which must surely interact with the beam wing more effectively. Is this an example of Red Bull sacrificing diffuser volume for better overall effectiveness? They were masters of it in the previous rule set and others followed them. I wonder if Mercedes will do something similar next season.

Perhaps it's another little piece in the non-porpoising design that Red Bull managed to produce this year.
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