Lotus T127 Cosworth

[axle]

Well this little bit of work may rip this thread open...

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present the VJM02...


and...
...The VJM02...



The facts.
1) MG works/ed for both
2) Aerolab (FondTech) was used by Toyota, Renault, FI whilst MG was with those teams.
3) Floor shape is the same
4) Front of sidepods the virtually the same without the aero bits.
5) The bits that have been modified are in a different material...yes bits are different, they have done some work, but not all of it.

If I was FI I'd be p155ed....

Here's another clincher...
Note the front wing...



But I'm not gloating, this is worrying to me I want the Lotus name back in F1 but not through ripping FI's interlectual property. Yes every team copies but that's blatently FI's wind tunnel model.

Your thoughts?

[deus1066]

Yeah, I thought Force India front wing + Toyota nose + Williams sidepods when I first saw it...

Its strange, surely if you're going to copy something you should go for a McRedBrawn since they've been the 3 quickest cars.

[axle]

Yeah, I thought Force India front wing + Toyota nose + Williams sidepods when I first saw it...

Its strange, surely if you're going to copy something you should go for a McRedBrawn since they've been the 3 quickest cars.

If it was a COPY you'd be right...but it isn't a copy, it's the REAL FIF1 50% model at the WindTunnel where it's based.

[pipex]

Now we know why MG isn't too worried about the design of this "new" car hahaha.
But maybe the aero is really FondTech IP?, however if FI paid for this work before, then it's property of them?, don't know i'm confused...

[axle]

Now we know why MG isn't too worried about the design of this "new" car hahaha.
But maybe the aero is really FondTech IP?, however if FI paid for this work before, then it's property of them?, don't know i'm confused...

I doubt that FondTech own any FI IP.

[MattF1]

The funniest thing about that car is positive and asymmetric camber at the rear axle. Priceless!

Looks to me like the tyres were thrown on hastily (hence the front wheel cock-up) and the rear wheels aren't properly attached.

[dumrick]

The funniest thing about that car is positive and asymmetric camber at the rear axle. Priceless!

Looks to me like the tyres were thrown on hastily (hence the front wheel cock-up) and the rear wheels aren't properly attached.

Like somebody has hinted, I suppose it's just an effect of a wide-angle photo lens (I believe the shop seems small enough to need a WA lens to get the whole car in the picture) and a slightly misalignent of the photo shot (that catches more one of the sides of the building than the other), that justifies the apparent asymmetry and camber on the wheels.

As far of using the VJM02 scale-model, I'm pretty sure they must be using that for baseline assessment of performance. Gascoyne has too many times in the past iterated the aero until the last minute and I believe he will do it again.

[shiggy]

Well this little bit of work may rip this thread open...

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present the VJM02...


and...
...The VJM02...


The facts.
1) MG works/ed for both
2) Aerolab (FondTech) was used by Toyota, Renault, FI whilst MG was with those teams.
3) Floor shape is the same
4) Front of sidepods the virtually the same without the aero bits.
5) The bits that have been modified are in a different material...yes bits are different, they have done some work, but not all of it.

If I was FI I'd be p155ed....

Here's another clincher...
Note the front wing...


But I'm not gloating, this is worrying to me I want the Lotus name back in F1 but not through ripping FI's interlectual property. Yes every team copies but that's blatently FI's wind tunnel model.

Your thoughts?

"That is the Force India!" was my first thought. Extremely straight forward and simple design (by F1 standards). I had not realized just how close the 2 cars are, though. Hopefully the design will evolve into something worthy of the Lotus legacy.

On the shop: An F1 shop is not required to look like the Mclaren Tech Center to be effective. I would rather see a new team spend their funds on the car than fancy shop space.

[Scotracer]

All teams copy each other all the time. I'd bet this model was just to test out the other teams designs and see what makes them good.

It might not be moral...but neither is Max Mosley, and he runs the damn sport!

[Astro1]

Agreed, but surely you wouldn't put out a competitors ("for evaluation purposes")car out as your challenger in PR campaign.

The FIA asks do you have a car and you show them yes we do it's a FI? I think it's a bit cheesy.

[axle]

That model would have been built by Force India and shipped to Aerolab. It not LotusF1's property. Which means they are claiming credit for something they haven't done.

There is copying and then there is literally passing off someone elses work as your own...

[czt]

All teams copy each other all the time. I'd bet this model was just to test out the other teams designs and see what makes them good.

There's copying and there is building identical replicas! Look and axles pics - they are the same parts!

[Astro1]

Sad thing is, that all this is going right over the medias heads.

A complete copy [-X

[axle]

I can't see it being a copy...I think it is FI's actual model that FI built.

[Mystery Steve]

OK, let's slow down here... There is a definite likeness between the two, but there are several distinct differences as well. The "inner endplates" on the FI wing come up to a point and then become parallel to the ground, while the Lotus version sweeps up. The Lotus nose looks higher (might be the angle of the shot). The supports under the air intake are distinctly different. The flow conditioners on the side pods of the FI are absent on the Lotus. The brake duct inlets look different as well. Aside from aero, the suspension is different, most notably the steering rack location.

Yes, there are some similarities, but there is nothing wrong with using another team's general aero design as a baseline if you think there is a reason to justify it. Before you accuse them of cheating, does anyone have any actual evidence that this is currently FI property? FI may have sold them old parts if they're going to use a new design next year and don't need the old models.