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Max Verstappen took the lead of the race at the wet start, and maintained that until the very end. Behind him however, lots was going on due to the mixed conditions. Lewis Hamilton fought back from an error into second while Norris put McLaren on the podium for the first time this season.
He had the least preseason testing mileage of anyone and Imola is a confidence track. Look at all the drivers who switched teams, they're all struggling comparatively to their team-mate. Ricciardo vs Norris (if you use the deleted lap), Sainz vs Leclerc, Alonso even looked bad compared to Ocon this weekend. Give it a few weekends - assuming Aston don't give up for 2022.
Exactly my point, where so we stop with Excuses. He’s clearly been spiralling for two years now, and from the perspective of a neutral when it comes to him, i cannot say anything but “your time has passed”. Nothing else can be considered a valid argument. I still see people giving him races. Races for what? If he’s the second most decorated driver on the grid, and already an All Time great with his name etched in the sport, why does he need baby-sitting into teams?erudite450 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2021, 11:14I don't understand these excuses being made for Vettel. Leclerc took pole in his second race for Ferrari and was leading the race comfortably before his mishap. Russel was on the pace right away in Sakhir last season when he stood in for Hamilton. Stroll isn't slow but he's also not top of the grid in terms of ultimate pace. An old Massa had between 0.8 to 1sec on him in dry qualifying sessions when they were in Williams. Sirotkin, a rookie, beat him (Stroll) in qualy in their sole season together. Checo who's not known for his single lap speed outqualified Stroll for two seasons at Racing Point. Even Hulkenberg jumped in mid-season and outqualified Stroll! But who knows, maybe AMR are sabotaging Vettel's car just like Ferrari did.
The checks on Vettel's time at Ferrari w/ Leclerc have Aalready been cashed, you'll have to search the depths of unpopular opinions to find anyone who will tell you he had a good season last year or that he was faster than his teammate. Also, nobody mentioned that Vettel's car is or was being sabotaged here, and where did you see any excuse being made for him here?, I'm curious. I simply mentioned I am reserving my conclusions for when a proper sample size is present. 4 races and the progression of times in quali, fastest lap in the race and overall race craft across 4 races between Vettel and his current teammate will suffice. So far Vettel went from being 8 tenths down in Bahrain to 2 tenths down in Imola, hence my reservation. It is not an excuse.erudite450 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2021, 11:14I don't understand these excuses being made for Vettel. Leclerc took pole in his second race for Ferrari and was leading the race comfortably before his mishap. Russel was on the pace right away in Sakhir last season when he stood in for Hamilton. Stroll isn't slow but he's also not top of the grid in terms of ultimate pace. An old Massa had between 0.8 to 1sec on him in dry qualifying sessions when they were in Williams. Sirotkin, a rookie, beat him (Stroll) in qualy in their sole season together. Checo who's not known for his single lap speed outqualified Stroll for two seasons at Racing Point. Even Hulkenberg jumped in mid-season and outqualified Stroll! But who knows, maybe AMR are sabotaging Vettel's car just like Ferrari did.
The question is, do you want the BEST drivers? Then ask Who are the best drivers? it usually the ones with the best results, even if it is v their team mates. In most cases of older drivers, its the team mates who lose out, so should gomafeotul wrote: ↑18 Apr 2021, 11:09So,Big Tea wrote: ↑18 Apr 2021, 10:57I also think bringing Seb in will turn out to be a bad move from a driver point of view, but he has been there and done that, and the car is looking poor this year any way, so no point changing him, use his knowledge to improve the team.politburo wrote: ↑18 Apr 2021, 10:43
I'm trying my best not to make excuses for Vettel but he has improved relative to his teammate so far. But it is certainly not looking good missing Q3 twice. If by Rd. 4 in Spain he doesn't show he is the Number 1 driver most expect him to be then it will truly be done for him, although Stroll is not slow. At that point I think it'd be best Vettel takes a sabbatical and for AMR to start looking elsewhere for a 2nd driver.
Possibly keep him on as an advisor in the way Miki was at Merc. His PR value to the team will go a long way towards covering his costs, and his 'champion-ness' could rub off on the new drivers. Merc may find it convenient to 'place' Russell there next year which would be a double bonus all round.
BTW (mafeotul) young drivers like Albon are getting their chance, but teams will always keep the best driver, irrespective of age. Drives are earned after the first year. (OK, or paid for)
Being as honest and as brutal as you can, for the development of the grid, and given that a lot is about to change and fairly quickly in the sport, would it not be beneficial to apply the same mentality to the grid? We already have a good field there, but if Norris can do what he is doing after such short time, surely it must be time to revamp the generation a bit. Yeah, people will invest a bit more in names. I get that, but you don’t win anything with names. That’s a thing i love the most about F1, unlike other sports, names really don’t matter as much as what you can do.
The whole point of giving the races is to monitor the progression relative to he teammate, as that is the perfect reference point. Everyone knows he's not faster than Leclerc, who is at worst the 4th fastest driver on the grid, and the fastest at his best. But is he faster than Stroll however?. Is Ocon faster than Alonso?. We will know that by the virtue of their qualifying performances and race pace over a span of races, not 1, or even 2, but a proper sample size, 4, 5 or maybe even 6 races. If there is already a historical reference point from past seasons to make such comparisons with, such as that between Hamilton & Bottas, it is useless to even evaluate this as it would be common knowledge. However, in Vettel's case it is not a closed case.mafeotul wrote: ↑18 Apr 2021, 11:21Exactly my point, where so we stop with Excuses. He’s clearly been spiralling for two years now, and from the perspective of a neutral when it comes to him, i cannot say anything but “your time has passed”. Nothing else can be considered a valid argument. I still see people giving him races. Races for what? If he’s the second most decorated driver on the grid, and already an All Time great with his name etched in the sport, why does he need baby-sitting into teams?erudite450 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2021, 11:14I don't understand these excuses being made for Vettel. Leclerc took pole in his second race for Ferrari and was leading the race comfortably before his mishap. Russel was on the pace right away in Sakhir last season when he stood in for Hamilton. Stroll isn't slow but he's also not top of the grid in terms of ultimate pace. An old Massa had between 0.8 to 1sec on him in dry qualifying sessions when they were in Williams. Sirotkin, a rookie, beat him (Stroll) in qualy in their sole season together. Checo who's not known for his single lap speed outqualified Stroll for two seasons at Racing Point. Even Hulkenberg jumped in mid-season and outqualified Stroll! But who knows, maybe AMR are sabotaging Vettel's car just like Ferrari did.
Checo said he should have taken pole but made a mistake in last corner (sorry no source, they said it at spanish tv but I didn´t watch/hear the actual statement) so he´s not a good reference to compare if Max made a mistake in last corner, maybe both made it but Checo´s one was more costly.nimoraca wrote: ↑18 Apr 2021, 00:08There is no obvious mistake of Max in the final corner (at least it is not obvious from the onboard). He was just slower than Lewis there. Also, the mistake in turn 3 does not look as if it was worth more than 0.05-0.1s,( compared to Perez. Some of the Red Bull fans here are trying so hard to make it look like Red Bull still had massive advantage when its completely obvious that they didn't (at least against Hamilton). Race pace looked very similar on Friday between Hamilton and Red Bulls but we only got to see a handful of race sim laps so we do not really have enough info on the tire deg between them. I think who ever takes care of their tires better will win tomorow.godlameroso wrote: ↑17 Apr 2021, 23:52He made a huge mistake in sector 3 as well, messing up on the exit of the final corner which cost him another .2 he should have had .4 on Hamilton with no mistakes. Still, he has to deliver when it counts or potential is meaningless. We'll see what happens in the race, I have a feeling it'll be hard for Hamilton to keep his position. If Perez undercuts him, he'll come out behind him when he pits, if he covers off Perez he loses track position to Verstappen. Also RBR has an excellent pit crew, Mercedes may lose some time on the pit stop. So Hamilton will have to be mm perfect as well as the team, all race long if he's going to hang on to the lead.dans79 wrote: ↑17 Apr 2021, 21:39
No, you're making my point for me!
If the car was as dominant as so many here claimed just a few weeks ago, they would have beaten Lewis regardless of the mistakes.
Helmet himself said Max's mistake cost him 0.2. so he would have been on pole by a little over a tenth without the mistake. That is hardly the sign of a dominant car.
That's the old version, in version3 which applied to quali and the race they scrapped turn13 and added that it's fine to cut the chicane in 14/15 ("cars will be permitted to drive on the yellow kerbs located at the apex of Turns 14 and 15.")politburo wrote: ↑18 Apr 2021, 10:36I just hope they enforce track limits as they have written here in the Race Director's notes and consistently so. Bahrain was quite the travesty in terms of this. Hopefully from now on we see drivers punished and get penalties in the race as well not just Quali and FP.
https://i.ibb.co/GndzCYx/traklimits.png
I know.dans79 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2021, 05:38You hope, because you have no way of really knowing!godlameroso wrote: ↑18 Apr 2021, 04:57Won't be the last but it's not going to be a regular occurrence.
It won't, at all.erudite450 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2021, 13:24It's set up to be a fascinating race. We don't really need rain to spice it up. However, if it's going to rain, I hope it happens before the start or after everyone has pitted. No lucky breaks. May the best man win.
Not sure sure about that anymore.godlameroso wrote: ↑18 Apr 2021, 13:13Overcast right now. Dry on track, doesn't look like it's going to rain. More humidity in the air than yesterday that's for sure.