What we have learned so far...

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
Websta
0
Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 15:18

Re: What we have learned so far...

Post

Blackout wrote:Me too thinks Mercedes is not really faster than Lotus in qualy mode. Raikkonen (and Hamilton) were allways close in S1 to the Merc despite their super-double-DRSF-duct. and allways faster in the aerodynamic S2. And KR and Grosjean made big mistakes in Q3 and respectively lost 2 tenths, atleast.
They are at least equal in qaly... both did'nt show all their potential but it seems E20's "hidden" potential is bigger.

Jar Jar might be on to something

User avatar
Bob Brown
1
Joined: 24 Mar 2008, 05:20

Re: What we have learned so far...

Post

Yeah, that Lotus is really something this year!

Can't wait to see it actually get pole one of these races

User avatar
JohnsonsEvilTwin
0
Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: What we have learned so far...

Post

Its no secret the mercs will suffer drop off during the race.

Lotus will be quicker as will Red Bull. Mercedes will not find a magic bullet solution to their issues. Expect less issues but the trena d remains Mercedes will go backwards come race.

The only real hope they have is if other teams suffer similar wear issues. If thats the case, Schumi could be looking at a podium.
More could have been done.
David Purley

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: What we have learned so far...

Post

we can only look at the combinations of driver and car and team -you could speculate forever -If only...fact is Mercedes have jumped forward big time -remember last year Renault was bagging podiums in each of the first races1Renault has closed the time gap to the front that´s true ,but pecking order still prevents them from shooting for pole or wins.

I see no evidence the E20 has some hidden potential in excess compared to what Mercedes has .Obviously most teams struggle to maximise on the cars performance at this time-MCL scores big time in this area ,especially with Button-they are ready simple as that .

User avatar
Jakkals
0
Joined: 08 Feb 2011, 01:40

Re: What we have learned so far...

Post

I will not put it beyond Ross and Mercedes to find more potential in their current car. From the results we have seen so far they made considerable progress from their first two racing seasons. As with Ferrari, their car is still a "beta version", while for the their other competitors their cars are already "Version 2.2" I am convinced we are in for a great season.
Technology... is a queer thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other.

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: What we have learned so far...

Post

I think we will have to delay the dispute about third place in the pecking order until China. The wet race was inconclusive. Lap times were between 6 and 35 seconds off the dry pace. The first three teams are probably not more than 0.5 s apart in terms of mixed quali and race pace. Under the particular conditions it was a gamble of how much wing you adjusted during the red flag interruption. We saw that the driver sometimes made several seconds per lap in the race, by going on the right tyre in time or by keeping his tyres in better shape. That makes it effectively impossible to extract dry performance order from the Malaysian race.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Lorenzo_Bandini
Lorenzo_Bandini
11
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 12:15

Re: What we have learned so far...

Post

Two races in a row that Lotus is faster than Mercedes... For me it's enough... And i think Scuderia Alonso is faster than Mercedes on race pace. This team was faster at Melbourne until the last stint, and today, it was the same all the race.

Two races in a row that Williams and Sauber was good, at Melbourne the track was dry all the sunday, it was normal conditions.

For me, Mercedes race pace is awful. At Melbourne and today it was the same pattern, the car eat the tyres too much.

User avatar
ArchAngel
2
Joined: 15 Feb 2010, 11:22

Re: What we have learned so far...

Post

Sooo... I guess we've all learned some new things after China. I've certainly learned never to write off a would-be contender team in a 20-race season after only 2 races in unrepresentative conditions & unlucky circumstances.

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: What we have learned so far...

Post

The one race where we have a dry qualifying and race with no safety cars, and Merc dominates. Sounds ominous, but somehow I don't think it's quite the full picture
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

User avatar
SiLo
139
Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: What we have learned so far...

Post

raymondu999 wrote:The one race where we have a dry qualifying and race with no safety cars, and Merc dominates. Sounds ominous, but somehow I don't think it's quite the full picture
I think there were a lot of cars out of position in qualifying because of the temperature drop experienced for a lot of people last runs + Hamilton's penalty. It's fair to say though that they do have a quick car!
Felipe Baby!

NonNewtonic
NonNewtonic
0
Joined: 09 Dec 2011, 16:55

Re: What we have learned so far...

Post

Blackout wrote:Me too thinks Mercedes is not really faster than Lotus in qualy mode. Raikkonen (and Hamilton) were allways close in S1 to the Merc despite their super-double-DRSF-duct. and allways faster in the aerodynamic S2. And KR and Grosjean made big mistakes in Q3 and respectively lost 2 tenths, atleast.
They are at least equal in qaly... both did'nt show all their potential but it seems E20's "hidden" potential is bigger.

For me if you ever see Mercedes in qualifying their straight line speed is not that fast either and another thing I would like to point out is Lotus seems to be struggling with rear DF if you watched Kimi's lap in Q3 that's hell lot of workload on the steering compared to the Mercedes. Besides talking about mistakes Michael's fastest lap in Q3 wasn't perfect either he made a few mistakes in between which cost him .5 seconds behind Nico but where is he? 2 tenths clear from Kimi's lap

Maelstrom
Maelstrom
0
Joined: 26 Mar 2012, 06:38

Re: What we have learned so far...

Post

I think McLaren's are number 1 atm with Merc/Redbull right behind and Lotus in 3rd.

If Merc is able to bring new updates and solve their tyre issues once and for all they might even end up P2 in the WCC.

If Ferrari are to contend at all they'll have to improve massively by Spain or else it might be a little too late.

User avatar
SiLo
139
Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: What we have learned so far...

Post

Maelstrom wrote:I think McLaren's are number 1 atm with Merc/Redbull right behind and Lotus in 3rd.

If Merc is able to bring new updates and solve their tyre issues once and for all they might even end up P2 in the WCC.

If Ferrari are to contend at all they'll have to improve massively by Spain or else it might be a little too late.
Even if Ferrari improve massively by Spain, ALL teams bring large updates so their package would have to be something really special.
Felipe Baby!

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: What we have learned so far...

Post

I think we did fall into the Duffy duct trap as did all the competitors and thought Mercedes was a qualy wonder only for the reduced drag they have at a finger tap.
far from it the car has speed with and without using the ductas we saw in China.
Mercedes has had lots of Tyre issues since forever and a week and I think this was a result of them being reluctant to work out how to adapt the car quickly to change of conditions.We heard forever :we prefer to let the conditons come to us and not change too much.
Wrong on all accounts you need to know exactly what each and every degree in ambient ,rubber laid ,rain shower or even a small cloud in the sky is doing to your setup and enable your team to adjust the car permanently to these changes and keep it in the window.
Something tells me it should be possible to use fluid flows in the car to tweak damper characteristics as well as ride height or spring rates/progression and maybe Mercedes have just that .

As for redBull they have to swallow the bitter pill to not have the best car in the field ,and I think it destabilises them as they are slow in realising they need to make a step to be able to challenge for wins.
Mclaren is realistically the team to beat this year but only when Mercedes does struggle to realise the potential of their car every weekend.

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: What we have learned so far...

Post

I think we are going into a season with an incredibly tight field. One hint for that is the China Q2 result that had eleven competitors within 0.3s.

Image

The other hint comes from the WDC table. In the first three races we had three different winners. Even more interesting we had three different WDC leaders after the races. Another hint is that the winners were all driving different cars.

It means that development, weather and circuit characteristics can present a totally different mix from race to race and we will have a very strongly contested drivers championship.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)