German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

[marcush.]

Its really a shame whats happened to the old track, it was a true engine breaker, under the current rules they would all be using a fresh engine at the start of this event. The thing ive been looking at is the ammount of trees that have been removed to accomadate the new track. Surely they should have left it as is, but the cost of camera set up was massive, this is the same stick that Bernie is trying to hit Spa with now.

On another side of things, Bridgestone is bringing both ends of their spectrum to this event, Super Soft and Hard tyres. Another Kobiyashai style race??? Saftey Cars are a high posibility here, Turn 1 has a big crash rate. When safety cars do come out, results like the last time Hockenhiem was used come about.

yep..in Formula2 in the late 70s ,every other lap a car did not return from the forrest...it surely was filling BMW and Brian Harts pockets..

[myurr]

Interesting question - if it's predicted to be a wet race do you think McLaren will discard the exhaust blown diffuser and go with an easier to drive traditional setup? Red Bull have struggled in the wet this year, presumably at least in part due to not being able to use the throttle as they normally would.

[forty-two]

Interesting question - if it's predicted to be a wet race do you think McLaren will discard the exhaust blown diffuser and go with an easier to drive traditional setup? Red Bull have struggled in the wet this year, presumably at least in part due to not being able to use the throttle as they normally would.

Interesting question.

I expect, that if McLaren decide not to run their new EBD, the reason given will be that it's not working properly.

I however reckon that they'll run it even if rain is a dead cert. With no testing time, the track time will be very valuable to them, even if this means that they might not score as many points as they might otherwise have.

[marcush.]

§34.1 sportingregs parc ferme post qualy:
- if the FIA technical delegate is satisfied that changes in climatic conditions necessitate alterations to the specification of a car, changes may be made to the air ducts around the front and rear brakes and radiator ducts. These changes may be made at any time after the message “CHANGE IN CLIMATIC CONDITIONS” is shown on the timing monitors, from this point the choice of brake cooling and radiator ducts is free, subject always to compliance with the relevant Technical Regulations.

so you are allowed to change the radiator outlet ducts..if climatic conditions change .
it should be possible to redirect the exhaust flow in aways to not influence the diffusser anymore...or?

[andrew]

If it is wet I expect Schumacher to go well.

[myurr]

Interesting question - if it's predicted to be a wet race do you think McLaren will discard the exhaust blown diffuser and go with an easier to drive traditional setup? Red Bull have struggled in the wet this year, presumably at least in part due to not being able to use the throttle as they normally would.

Interesting question.

I expect, that if McLaren decide not to run their new EBD, the reason given will be that it's not working properly.

I however reckon that they'll run it even if rain is a dead cert. With no testing time, the track time will be very valuable to them, even if this means that they might not score as many points as they might otherwise have.

I'd be surprised if they ran it in the rain, in practice yes but for championship reasons they'd prefer to have the best possible performance.

[myurr]

If it is wet I expect Schumacher to go well.

I'll try and only post on this once as otherwise it'll descend into a 'yes he will', 'no he wont' argument but I think the wet would actually hinder him a little bit. He's still not 100% comfortable in the car and the blown diffuser may make it more unstable in the wet, so I'd expect him to struggle to be honest.

[andrew]

I was thinking in terms of the lower speeds and the chance of a safety car and others falling off the track.

[PNSD]

That being the case I expect Sakon to do well !

Truth is about wet weather races, its all unknown. Often strategy wins over driver performance.

All im saying is, if its wet then expect the unexpected to happen as much as the expected.

[feynman]

I'd like to see another wet-race for another look at the Red Bulls in the rain. They really didn't look very comfortable in China, but there was that backstraight and being f-ductless to deal with, so the setup was perhaps sketchy. Be interesting to see again how reduced throttle in the rain hurts the rear-end.

As an aside, just in general, what does a wet track do to a diffuser, we see how critical ride-height is to keeping the mclaren diffuser operating, does surface water help or hinder that process?

[marcush.]

please ...hockenheim is not SPA ... it really does not rain very often in Hockenheim ...
weatherforecast now leaning towards 50% rain chance on friday at 26°C....mild temperature s on saturday 20/25°C and sunday..slightly cloudy..rain risk 16%

so not good to make the super hard primes work...but a good prospect for the supersofts...

I wonder if Schumacher will adopt a Q3prime tire strategy and go for the supersofts for the last 15 laps on raceday...just to go against the tide and try to perform a miracle result..

[forty-two]

As an aside, just in general, what does a wet track do to a diffuser, we see how critical ride-height is to keeping the mclaren diffuser operating, does surface water help or hinder that process?

I look forward to being corrected by the esteemed members of this forum, but as far as I am aware, when running in known wet conditions, the cars tend to have their ride-height increased (prior to the race) in order to reduce the likelihood of aquaplaning.

As you have already mentioned, the ride-height of all F1 cars is pretty critical, and generally speaking, the lower the car, the better the downforce, so if a wet race is forecast or likely, some teams may opt to crank their chassis' up a little, which could hurt the downforce of some cars more than others.

Pretty sure that such ride height decisions can only take place BEFORE the race (possibly before Q1 under Parc-Ferme regs???), unless any of the teams have some form of trick ride-height adjustment. From earlier discussion in the Ride-Height control thread, I learned that ride height may not be adjusted while the car is in motion, but COULD presumably be done on the grid before the start of a race??

[raymondu999]

Anyone willing to bet AGAINST a Red Bull pole position?

[andrew]

Depends if the drivers fued spills onto the track.

[feynman]

As an aside, just in general, what does a wet track do to a diffuser, we see how critical ride-height is to keeping the mclaren diffuser operating, does surface water help or hinder that process?

... when running in known wet conditions, the cars tend to have their ride-height increased (prior to the race) in order to reduce the likelihood of aquaplaning.

As you have already mentioned, the ride-height of all F1 cars is pretty critical, and generally speaking, the lower the car, the better the downforce...

I am pretty sure that most of the ride-height increase still comes from the wet-tyres (they are designed with a larger diameter to naturally raise the car when bolted on).

But I was kinda more curious about the dynamics under the car with the two fluids present (air and water). Do all the equations still stand up? Do the airflows still behave as they would running over water as they do running over dry asphalt?

Can you take a gamble an run a little lower as grounding onto very light surface water is not as upsetting as dry track, or is it worse? (Obviously serious surface water and you are off into the scenery, no questions asked).

Does the water do anything weird to the underfloor pressures and the floor edges, or the ground effects? Does it help enclose and channel the air under the floor, or does it dissipate the underfloor energy and hurt the diffuser?

Or is running in wet such a slippery old random mess, that any or all of the above might be happening, but in real-terms are too subtle or convouluted to worry about, job 1 is just keep the car pointing the right way and going forward, anything else is a bonus.