Alonso's Crash

[turbof1]

You don't know if stalling was the problem + he lost control before going side by side so no side draft either.

I believe there were comments from him that the car became very unstable when he left the wake of Button's car. I can't find those at the moment though (I actually was glad already that the FOM did not remove the youtube video). For the record I'm not pointing at side draft but at how sudden changes in air flowing toward the car can have drastic consequences. Sidedraft is something you can fully anticipate and actually only an issue when you are overtaking right into a corner. Even then, it remains a constant drop of downforce, unlike a sudden sidewind.

Again, what I am telling is nothing new or rocket science. So many cars have gone off track due a sudden burst of wind. Nasr went off at the same place as Alonso also due sidewinds.

This is a sauber video showing in cfd renders what happens with the car's airflow due wind:

[Moose]

Why is everyone so convinced that a side wind is the thing that matters. A wind from behind is far far far more disturbing to the car than a side wind.

[Manoah2u]

omfg, this stupid electrocution idea is still lingering? did you guys even read the other 'alonso crash' thread?

seriously, electrocution is impossible to have happened to Fernando. Absolutly impossible. go ahead to the thread and read what's posted there. I can't believe this is still being dragged to the bone after all this time. Seriously.

I'm finding news reports contradicting about his memory loss regarding his memories because on some point it was said he thouht he was still driving for Ferrari and now we read about going back 1995. In any case, severe memory loss fits perfectly with a hefty concussion.

A hefty concussion also fits with Alonso needing time to 'restore' and avoid a possible second hit. This would not be at all compliant with any form of electrocution [which again, is impossible given the facts on electrocution, f1 design, etc etc. seriously read that other thread].

btw, regarding the idea of electrocution through a mgu-k unit through a tank to the back, apart from the most silly idea ever, is solely cooked up because of supposed back issues. 1: there is zero mentioning of back injuries whilst it is said Alonso is physicall fully ok [there was no mention of mental state], and 2: Alonso had back issues before, he had a good blow in his ferrari over a curb flight, and from a previous heavy crash. It's normal for former injuries to come up to play when another hefty accident occurs. just think about kimi for a second.

i think it was better off when this thread was closed.......

[Manoah2u]

Every inch of his body is covered in two to three layers of nomex, how are you supposed to get electrocuted wearing that...

the gloves are not isolating.
in fact more informated media have just noted that, if electricity reached the driver, it should have passed through the steering wheel.
maybe i'm wrong but I guess that also the neck could be be a weak point from this point of view

the gloves ARE isolating. it shall not pass through the steering wheel. don't ignore actual physics. seriously.

go ahead and grab a cattle fence power wire without gloves, and then grab it with gloves. you can pick any glove, but let's say winter gloves are comparable. nothing will happen. why? because they are isolated and because the material does not conduct electricity.

read the other topic. sjeesh.

[mikeerfol]

Hahaha you gotta love it when Manoah2u gets angry

[MOWOG]

I feel qualified to offer an observation here, since I know virtually nothing about the subject and neither does anyone else, so far as I can tell.

None of the Formula One teams have shared any information with me about where the various components of their cars are located, but I am going to make an educated guess and say that SOME part of the power unit that collects, stores or uses high voltage electricity is located within an RCH of the driver's buttocks or spine.

I seem to recall last year some driver (can't remember who) was actually getting burned in the cockpit during one of the hotter races because some part of the drivetrain was located right against his seat and was overheating.

IF ( and I emphasize IF) Alonso suffered an electrical shock, it more than likely came from behind him and NOT up the steering column. That's really the only thing that makes sense if there is any truth to the electric shock theory.

I will say that McLaren has done a piss poor job of handling this situation. I wouldn't believe anything Big Ron or Little Eric has to say. Neither has any credibility.

So Alonso was NOT injured, never was injured, buy spent 4 days in the hospital as a result of his non-injury and will not be able to drive in Melbourne also because of his non-injury.

Right. Got it. :-"

[lebesset]

just read the report of dean stoneman's shunt at jerez ...destabilized by a gust of wind apparently ; where have i heard this before ?

[R_Redding]

the gloves are not isolating.

Unless wet .... Leather gloves are extremely insulating .... I have just tested a footjoy cabretta leather golf glove and the needle does not move on my 1000v Megger test meter.

And I use leather TIG welding gloves to stop my Thermal Arc TA180s 2500v HF pilot arc from zapping me.

And Nomex is better that leather ..
NOMEX® products withstand short-term electrical stresses of 18 to 40 kV/mm (457 to 1015 V/mil)
Rob

[Richard]

IF ( and I emphasize IF) Alonso suffered an electrical shock, it more than likely came from behind him and NOT up the steering column.

ps - Electricity needs to go from somewhere to somewhere.

pps - Electricity actually flows from the -ve or earth to the +ve, so the flow would likely be to the back, not from.

ppps - Yes this trivial nit-picking, hence the footnote nomenclature.

pppps - Yes I know these are postscripts not footnotes but that's taking pedantry too far! (Yes I know that's an oxymoron.. or is it a tautology???? )

[Manoah2u]

I seem to recall last year some driver (can't remember who) was actually getting burned in the cockpit during one of the hotter races because some part of the drivetrain was located right against his seat and was overheating.

That would be media exegeration of Kevin Magnussen's race @ Singapore last year.

http://formulaspy.com/formula-1/formula ... laims-6139

Kevin Magnussen has played down the back burns he suffered when the seat in his McLaren overheated during the Singapore Grand Prix.

http://twitter.com/KevinMagnussen/statu ... 1530762240 besides, hot back does not equal electrocution.

I will say that McLaren has done a piss poor job of handling this situation. I wouldn't believe anything Big Ron or Little Eric has to say. Neither has any credibility.

So Alonso was NOT injured, never was injured, buy spent 4 days in the hospital as a result of his non-injury and will not be able to drive in Melbourne also because of his non-injury.

Right. Got it. :-"

No team leader ever has any credibility because it's all a conspiracy theory in every case to everybody who puts on the tinfoil hat.

It's funny people disregard and deny accepting statements from prominent figures whose words are carefully weighed and thought through before giving an official statement,
but any internet loon that rambles on a keyboard is taken as gospel, no matter how rediculous it is.

[godlameroso]

He didn't have a concussion did he? A concussion is serious business, you can become severely injured if you receive multiple concussions in a short period of time. However, despite this I still question the official story. Alonso is a huge ego, and so is big Ron, this right here is a volatile relationship. Ron isn't stupid and won't do things openly like Alonso will. Alonso wears his heart on his sleeve and instantly lashes out to get even, Ron will not express his displeasure in such a Latin way. He destroys you if you don't fall in line.

[timbo]

Unless wet ....

The drivers sweat quite a lot. Maybe not so much during that day, but I would imagine the racing suite is far perfectly dry.

[strad]

before they came up with better products cotton was the insulator coating on electrical wires. The gloves would definitely act as insulation. For him to be shocked, as I understand it, 5 different fail safes would have to fail.

[Richard]

prominent figures whose words are carefully weighed and thought through before giving an official statement.

Ron's statements are always precisely worded like a lawyer which means they don't make sense if read in common sense. As I recall, he said the scans did not show physical brain damage, hence he was correct in saying the scans did not show any concussion.

He did say that Alonso showed concussive symptoms (ie dazed) which is perfectly possible even if there were no detectible physical changes or damage in his brain.

I also suspect that's where the "he's lying because someone can't be concussed at 30g" bit comes from. It seems that detectible damage to the brain occurs between 75-100g ish. However as anyone who has tripped over or had some other blow to the head knows, it is easy to get dazed with an everyday impact that might not be as severe enough to cause physical damage.

This UK site refers to concussion as disruption of cognitive function http://www.patient.co.uk/health/post-co ... n-syndrome

This US site refers to concussions as physical injury to the structure http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/158876.php

[noel]

before they came up with better products cotton was the insulator coating on electrical wires. The gloves would definitely act as insulation. For him to be shocked, as I understand it, 5 different fail safes would have to fail.

honda has only 3, everyone else 5.