2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Sphere3758]

Is Sainz the only Ferrari driver since 1996 to not finish P4 or higher in WDC?

You mean like "not even in one season taken P4 or higher in WDC while driving for Ferrari?" In that case yes, missed an easy P4 in WDC in 2022, lots of errors every other race.

Yes, that is what I meant... 2024 seems to be his final chance.

I really do hope he does it. It would mean a reasonable shot at the constructors this year

[CouncilorIrissa]

Charles seems to be confident about pole and win in Monaco...

His luck racing in Monaco is horrible tho so I expect rain at the wrong time for him on Saturday and starting outside the top 10 on a dry Sunday

No that would be too lucky for Leclerc. It's much more likely that he qualifies on pole by half a second with Sainz being down in p4 at +0.6. Leclerc leads comfortably before and after the pitstops, then suffers a mechanical DNF around lap 65 because of something entirely out of his and Ferrari's control, like a blue flagged driver crashing in front of him, leading to an unavoidable crash like Checo and Sainz crashing in Q3 in 2022.

Then Sainz somehow ends up P1 after the red flag and wins the race, leading to inevitable discussions of Leclerc being error prone and inconsistent, while Sainz has the better race pace and should have stayed for 2025 over Leclerc.

I hate the fact that I find this very beliavable.

[ferkan]

From Autosport forum

Bobbi talked to some Ferrari technicians who said about the upgrades that literally everything worked as expected; Ferrari told Donadoni that Charles lost tyre temp after his mistake and never got it back, Donadoni says we can’t read anything about his pace after that.

https://forums.autosport.com/topic/2253 ... ry10599971

[SoulPancake13]

From Autosport forum

Bobbi talked to some Ferrari technicians who said about the upgrades that literally everything worked as expected; Ferrari told Donadoni that Charles lost tyre temp after his mistake and never got it back, Donadoni says we can’t read anything about his pace after that.

https://forums.autosport.com/topic/2253 ... ry10599971

Well hopefully that gets some people in here to relax a little.

[Vanja #66]

Well hopefully that gets some people in here to relax a little.

I am 99% sure there are Ferrari fans who'd complain about Ferrari winning every race because that could maybe make FIA change the rules to hurt them next year...

[Seanspeed]

Doesn't really hold up to scrutiny, though.

Leclerc made his mistake on lap 47, but then

47 1:21.313
48 1:21.513
49 1:20.798
50 1:20.414
51 1:20.364
52 1:20.358
53 1:20.889
54 1:20.398
55 1:20.636
56 1:20.415

It took him another lap to get the tires back up, but he absolutely did, as he went right back to doing lower-mid 1:20's again, which genuinely seemed to be the pace in the car as it was as fast as ever, and Sainz was only capable of doing upper 1:20's around the same time without any mistake.

The Mclaren simply had a second wind and plenty tire enough to start doing proper low 1:20's and Leclerc couldn't keep up.

Basically, it wasn't that Leclerc got slower, Norris simply got faster. The mistake ultimately cost Leclerc nothing except a bit of pride.

[ferkan]

Perhaps, but we cannot know if he would go lower if not for mistake. Your assumption is that before lap 47, that was quickest it could go, which might (probably) be true, but we cannot know, especially considering how mid Norris pace was until one moment when tires came to life and he went faster and faster till last lap.

[LM10]

From Autosport forum

Bobbi talked to some Ferrari technicians who said about the upgrades that literally everything worked as expected; Ferrari told Donadoni that Charles lost tyre temp after his mistake and never got it back, Donadoni says we can’t read anything about his pace after that.

https://forums.autosport.com/topic/2253 ... ry10599971

Of course we can't take his pace after going off-track seriously. That was obvious right when it happened. Only people who want to complain about everything just for the sake of complaining would do that.

Well hopefully that gets some people in here to relax a little.

I am 99% sure there are Ferrari fans who'd complain about Ferrari winning every race because that could maybe make FIA change the rules to hurt them next year...

Exactly.

[deadhead]

https://x.com/fm1_3316/status/179342823 ... 2n8am2mMAg


Good times.

[Vanja #66]

Jock Clear on Vasseur

https://www.formulapassion.it/f1/f1-new ... -rischiare

“His leadership gives people the confidence to risk more. This is his strength. He encourages to try something different and if things go wrong he’s ready to say, ‘We still learned something.’” The charisma within Vasseur’s team has been felt from the beginning, Clear explains: “Employees are excited, they are not afraid to try new things and get blamed. Now they have a different look at things: they know we can learn a lot faster if we take risks.”

[bluechris]

Jock Clear on Vasseur

https://www.formulapassion.it/f1/f1-new ... -rischiare

“His leadership gives people the confidence to risk more. This is his strength. He encourages to try something different and if things go wrong he’s ready to say, ‘We still learned something.’” The charisma within Vasseur’s team has been felt from the beginning, Clear explains: “Employees are excited, they are not afraid to try new things and get blamed. Now they have a different look at things: they know we can learn a lot faster if we take risks.”

This is very good... in comparison the only risks Ferrari took preVasseur era, was in strategic department and all felt sort lol

[bananapeel23]

Doesn't really hold up to scrutiny, though.

Leclerc made his mistake on lap 47, but then

47 1:21.313
48 1:21.513
49 1:20.798
50 1:20.414
51 1:20.364
52 1:20.358
53 1:20.889
54 1:20.398
55 1:20.636
56 1:20.415

It took him another lap to get the tires back up, but he absolutely did, as he went right back to doing lower-mid 1:20's again, which genuinely seemed to be the pace in the car as it was as fast as ever, and Sainz was only capable of doing upper 1:20's around the same time without any mistake.

The Mclaren simply had a second wind and plenty tire enough to start doing proper low 1:20's and Leclerc couldn't keep up.

Basically, it wasn't that Leclerc got slower, Norris simply got faster. The mistake ultimately cost Leclerc nothing except a bit of pride.

Maybe the tyre temperature issues were masked by fuel burning off, meaning that any temperature-induced loss of performance was simply offset by the fuel? Falling out of the operating window doesn't necessarily mean you become slower outright, it could just mean that you're slower than you otherwise would have been.

Like yeah if your ideal operating temperature is 100 c and you end up at 80 c (numbers are just examples, I have no clue how hot they should be), you will obviously have a severe loss of grip and performance, but if your core temperature drops to say 97 c because you're forced to slow down, and you can't get it back up without bringing the surface temperature waaaaay above what is ideal, you may just have to live with a minor loss of performance and higher deg than you otherwise would have if the tyre never fell out of the window to begin with.

Matching the same pace after running for 2 extra laps, means you have burned off like 4kg of fuel to reach the same pace, meaning you've lost like a tenth of raw pace due to tyre temps, with another few hundreds due to deg.

Obviously I have no way to tell if this is the case, but I see no reason not to take their word for it. The Ferrari has been insanely consistent on the tyres all season, for the pace to just fall off a cliff compared to Norris like this is completely out of character. The SF24 is usually fastest towards the end of a stint, which wasn't the case here. My guess is that it was a mix of the track cooling towards the later stages of the race, which is bad for a car that struggles with tyre warmup, as well going over the grass leading to a slight core temperature drop that couldn't be rectified without causing the tyres to grain up.

Now I don't think Leclerc was going to keep up with Norris anyway, but I do think the mistake and track temperature dropping did somewhat inhibit his pace, and that th gap might have been 2 or 3 seconds rather than ~7 if he never went off.

[CouncilorIrissa]

Obviously I have no way to tell if this is the case, but I see no reason not to take their word for it. The Ferrari has been insanely consistent on the tyres all season, for the pace to just fall off a cliff compared to Norris like this is completely out of character. The SF24 is usually fastest towards the end of a stint, which wasn't the case here. My guess is that it was a mix of the track cooling towards the later stages of the race, which is bad for a car that struggles with tyre warmup, as well going over the grass leading to a slight core temperature drop that couldn't be rectified without causing the tyres to grain up.

Now I don't think Leclerc was going to keep up with Norris anyway, but I do think the mistake and track temperature dropping did somewhat inhibit his pace, and that th gap might have been 2 or 3 seconds rather than ~7 if he never went off.

I agree.

Two things:

• We know for a fact that the SF-24 takes a long time to get the tyres up to temp;

• We have evidence that the car is capable of doing purple laps at the very end of the stint/race (see Saudi Arabia I think?).

Now, this doesn't necessarily mean that Leclerc would've been able to keep up with Norris if he hadn't gone off, but he definitely lost some performance after the accident. About 1-2 tenths and some consistency in lap times maybe?

[RonMexico]

Jock Clear on Vasseur

https://www.formulapassion.it/f1/f1-new ... -rischiare

“His leadership gives people the confidence to risk more. This is his strength. He encourages to try something different and if things go wrong he’s ready to say, ‘We still learned something.’” The charisma within Vasseur’s team has been felt from the beginning, Clear explains: “Employees are excited, they are not afraid to try new things and get blamed. Now they have a different look at things: they know we can learn a lot faster if we take risks.”

This is very good... in comparison the only risks Ferrari took preVasseur era, was in strategic department and all felt sort lol

A few grey area designs under Binotto...

It is a good message and looks to ring true on the track.

[AmateurDriver]

Jock Clear on Vasseur

https://www.formulapassion.it/f1/f1-new ... -rischiare

“His leadership gives people the confidence to risk more. This is his strength. He encourages to try something different and if things go wrong he’s ready to say, ‘We still learned something.’” The charisma within Vasseur’s team has been felt from the beginning, Clear explains: “Employees are excited, they are not afraid to try new things and get blamed. Now they have a different look at things: they know we can learn a lot faster if we take risks.”

That's all promising and heart-warning, but I'd rather celebrate some wins first, and only then I'd dig to discover the root causes of success. Honestly, I have had enough of promises and claims of self assurance. Again, see McLaren for comparison: words always follow facts.