2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

[Phil]

It has nothing to do with respect, but with what one needs to do in order to win. If you look at races like Brazil last year, or Mexico, you can see that a race is often (especially between team-mates) decided on the first few corners. Nico learned that lesson and he did exactly what was necessary in Australia for instance when he defended the inside of the corner and pushed Lewis wide. Lewis did exactly the same now at Canada and it decided who won and who didn't.

If you want to be World-Champion, there are no favors, no presents, no gifts. This is racing and not a charity.

[Vasconia]

It has nothing to do with respect, but with what one needs to do in order to win. If you look at races like Brazil last year, or Mexico, you can see that a race is often (especially between team-mates) decided on the first few corners. Nico learned that lesson and he did exactly what was necessary in Australia for instance when he defended the inside of the corner and pushed Lewis wide. Lewis did exactly the same now at Canada and it decided who won and who didn't.

If you want to be World-Champion, there are no favors, no presents, no gifts. This is racing and not a charity.

So you would agree that Nico´s move letting Lewis pass in Monaco was a mistake, right? becuse a fe laps more would have costed the victory to Lewis and Nico would have more points of advantage now.

[Wynters]

An enjoyable race.

What a start from Vettel! Just...wow. If nothing else, that'll keep Vettel motivated. Can't match them in Quali mode? Fine, I'll jump them before the race is three car lengths old. True or not, it's a positive to cling to on a Saturday evening.

I'm not sure what Rosberg thought would happen trying to go around the outside into turn 1. He likened it to Barcelona but the corner is very different. Later in the race he tried the same thing with Max but, sensibly, bailed out before he ran out of track. Looking at the onboards, from the angle he crossed the apex at, even he was only going to make the corner by dropping a lot of speed (regardless of what Hamilton did). I'm guessing that he knows that Hamilton can't get off the start at the moment and that it's his best moment to pass him but ... well, a brave move but ultimately a gamble at a time when it would make more sense for him to go for a guaranteed high return rather than trying to extend his lead.

It's a shame Ferrari went with a two stop, I would have been very interest to see whether they could have competed for sheer pace. Still, they've obviously made a big step forward so I'm hopeful for a multi-constructor championship this year (they've still got a little way to go though, Merc aren't going to be standing still). Vettel seems to have had lots of fun during the race and he got to push hard enough to stretch his abilities (hence the mistakes) but Kimi...oh Kimi. How the mighty have fallen. I doubt Ferrari will seek to replace him mid-season but, surely, now they have a decent car, it's time to get somebody in who can get points. Today should have been a comfortable 2-3 for Ferrari. Sadly, I don't think they will. It's a shame, because I'd like to see one of the midfield drivers promoted to a decent car. Perez and Sainz spring to mind.

Not a good race for Red Bull. Despite the step in their engine they still can't compete on those long straights. It was painful watching Ricciardo stuck behind a slow Kimi and, even in the clear air, Max didn't make much headway. I also don't think Ricciardo had much to complain about. He blew his race when he locked up at T1 on the first lap at let Max sail up the inside. After that, it was always going to be extremely difficult to overtake someone in the same car, let alone anyone else in the top eight. One of a number of mistakes during the race. Somebody earlier in the thread likened it to one of his TR races and I think that's pretty accurate. It will be interesting to see how he bounces back at Baku.

Great result for Williams. Sad to see Massa retire as this could have been a good points haul. I'm optimistic for them in Baku but I don't think they've eradicated their aero issues on slower tracks regardless of what they said about their improvement at Monaco. On the Massa front, Mercedes are slowly accruing a list of power unit issues which haven't been focussed on the way Ferrari's have.

Great drive by Sainz too. Quietly getting on with the doing an excellent job. Kvyat...well, I fear his head has gone. He needs to sort himself out and start to at least match his team mate or I fear he won't be long for F1.

The one thing I found particularly interesting at this race was the over taking. Specifically, Mercedes. It would seem that a lot of the drivers who have been driving at the sharp end for the last few years have subconsciously decided that it isn't worth fighting the Mercs. It feels as if they think that the Mercs will get past anyway so why lose time fighting when they aren't really going to be in the same race as them. For cars like Force India, I can understand but to see Rosberg breeze past Ricciardo and Raikonnen... Max showed that, even in the fourth fastest car at Montreal, on worse rubber, with a relatively inexperienced driver you can force them to really work for it and, although Rosberg did get him (white line excitement not withstanding) he held for ten(?) laps. Given the potential for a processional championship and given that the Merc seems to struggle in dirty air relative to it's superlative clean air performance, I hope a number of drivers took note and that we'll see the Mercs actually having to work to overtake.

Finally, FOM need to sort out their director. This is the second race in a row that there's been excitement going on during the last lap (Hulk vs Ros at Monaco and Raik vs Ros here) but, instead of watching it, we watch lone cars cruise around the last few corners waving to the crowd. By all means watch the race winner over the line but, after that, focus on the action! Perhaps people might think F1 is a bit more exciting if FOM actually show the excitement on screen.

[Phil]

So you would agree that Nico´s move letting Lewis pass in Monaco was a mistake, right? becuse a fe laps more would have costed the victory to Lewis and Nico would have more points of advantage now.

Monaco were team-orders, so not comparable. We can discuss the morality of team-orders, but from the teams POV is was understandable (because Nico was obviously dealing with issues no one else had), from Nico's perspective he shouldn't have yielded due to his own championship ambitions. But no one is bigger than the team and not following such an order when you are facing an issue of sorts, well, it could mean your seat or in Nico's case, perhaps a shorter career at Mercedes.

This has zero relevance to a racing incident where both cars have zero issues and are fighting for the edge on the first few corners.

[SparkyAMG]

In 2014 the exact same thing happened at the first corner between the Mercs, but the roles were reversed and Hamilton took a trip over the grass.

It's racing... And on this occasion I don't even think Hamilton was being forceful. Replays showed that he was actually trying to turn in more but was just suffering from understeer.

If the tyres had been switched on at that point Rosberg may well have made it around the outside, but on the first lap with cold and "stiff" tyres, there was only really one likely outcome.

[Schuttelberg]

Wow, it wasnt as spectacular as othe races but it was interesting nevertheless.

1)Vettel had a brilliant start and he drove fantastically. It is difficult to judge the strategy because they expected that Hamilton was going to do a two stop strategy but it didnt work for them. The weird thing was to do the same stategy for both cars, they shouldnt have done something different for Kimi.

2)Hamilton made a masterful driving. It was amazing to see how the took care about his tyres. About the start... I see nothing punishable in his manouvre. BUT this is not something you should do with a teammate, but its not the first time and I am sure he will do it again.

3)The question is...what would have happened if Nico would have done the same? a total sh*tstorm and 20 pages more for this thread.

4)It was a weird race for Ricciardo with a mediocre performance. Anyway he should start thinking about going to another team. Those team orders dont work for Max who ignored the order to let pass Ricciardo....

Great race for Sainz after his mistake on qualy....

1) Vettel probably had his best race of the season and while he's been almost spotless on race days, him and Ferrari have struggled to maximise Qualifying, thereby, the scratchy season. Yesterday, Vettel could have been on any strategy he liked, Hamilton and Mercedes would have done the opposite and still got him. Why? Because they can. Mercedes are in a wonderful place at the moment where even if they choose a slightly slower strategy, the pace in their car/driver allows them to compensate for it. Ferrari though have to realize that 'track position' is king in Formula 1 and while they would have put themselves under risk for the undercut to Hamilton, it was probably the right strategy to choose. Also, a two stopper was not such a bad idea, but US, S, US might have been a better way to go about it rather than US, SS, S. In hindsight, we're all smarter, fact simply is that the Mercedes-Hamilton combination was slightly faster and a win was always going to be difficult.

2) I agree with you that Hamilton was good at managing the tyres, but I also feel that the compound along with track temperatures helped. Pirelli have simply gone for a more durable compound all around this year to avoid any negative publicity. As for Hamilton's manoeuvre on Rosberg? Hard, but fair like you say. Rosberg's mistake came the previous grand prix in Monaco when he allowed Hamilton by. He should have just declined (eg- Hungary 2014)

3) Actually, Rosberg did make the exact same move on Hamilton in 2014. It was a mirror image. Hamilton is probably the most popular F1 driver and tends to divide opinion like no other, so you can understand the 20 pages.

4) Ricciardo was a victim of the start. He was ahead of Verstappen, but once Rosberg rejoined, Ricciardo went on the inside where Rosberg slowed him down, while Verstappen went on the outside and gained the place. Verstappen didn't decline team orders as far as I know. He was asked not to hold Ricciardo up, and once he got the call to get the hammer down, he started pushing. Verstappen was probably the star of the race yesterday with his robust defense against Rosberg, but on speed I think Ricciardo would have been faster if not for the start and if he was in clean air.

[Andres125sx]

Nico Rosberg Spins Twice At 2016 Canadian Grand Prix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-gg3hWT69o

Did they count the spin and the replay?

[Vasconia]

So you would agree that Nico´s move letting Lewis pass in Monaco was a mistake, right? becuse a fe laps more would have costed the victory to Lewis and Nico would have more points of advantage now.

Monaco were team-orders, so not comparable. We can discuss the morality of team-orders, but from the teams POV is was understandable (because Nico was obviously dealing with issues no one else had), from Nico's perspective he shouldn't have yielded due to his own championship ambitions. But no one is bigger than the team and not following such an order when you are facing an issue of sorts, well, it could mean your seat or in Nico's case, perhaps a shorter career at Mercedes.

This has zero relevance to a racing incident where both cars have zero issues and are fighting for the edge on the first few corners.

I am quite sure that drivers like Hamilton, Alonso or lets give a nex one Vestappen, would have not followed this order or at least they would have delayed it has much as possible. Dont you think?

[Schuttelberg]

So you would agree that Nico´s move letting Lewis pass in Monaco was a mistake, right? becuse a fe laps more would have costed the victory to Lewis and Nico would have more points of advantage now.

Monaco were team-orders, so not comparable. We can discuss the morality of team-orders, but from the teams POV is was understandable (because Nico was obviously dealing with issues no one else had), from Nico's perspective he shouldn't have yielded due to his own championship ambitions. But no one is bigger than the team and not following such an order when you are facing an issue of sorts, well, it could mean your seat or in Nico's case, perhaps a shorter career at Mercedes.

This has zero relevance to a racing incident where both cars have zero issues and are fighting for the edge on the first few corners.

Hamilton rejected a similar team order at Hungary in 2014, another circuit notoriously difficult to pass. Fighting for a WDC is an elite position to be in and it doesn't come across very many times to a driver. Rosberg could well be on his final shot at glory and if it were to mean a final year at Mercedes, then so be it. I can almost say for certain that neither Vettel nor Alonso would have yielded in the position Rosberg did.

In my opinion, it was an absolute blunder!! I don't think a large percentage of people believe that anyone other than Mercedes will be WCC this year. If there is a championship that might be a bit interesting, it's the WDC and I expect Lewis to eat Nico and the rest of the field for breakfast from here on! However, had Hamilton been denied at Monaco, who knows what would have happened?

[Vasconia]

1) Vettel probably had his best race of the season and while he's been almost spotless on race days, him and Ferrari have struggled to maximise Qualifying, thereby, the scratchy season. Yesterday, Vettel could have been on any strategy he liked, Hamilton and Mercedes would have done the opposite and still got him. Why? Because they can. Mercedes are in a wonderful place at the moment where even if they choose a slightly slower strategy, the pace in their car/driver allows them to compensate for it. Ferrari though have to realize that 'track position' is king in Formula 1 and while they would have put themselves under risk for the undercut to Hamilton, it was probably the right strategy to choose. Also, a two stopper was not such a bad idea, but US, S, US might have been a better way to go about it rather than US, SS, S. In hindsight, we're all smarter, fact simply is that the Mercedes-Hamilton combination was slightly faster and a win was always going to be difficult.

2) I agree with you that Hamilton was good at managing the tyres, but I also feel that the compound along with track temperatures helped. Pirelli have simply gone for a more durable compound all around this year to avoid any negative publicity. As for Hamilton's manoeuvre on Rosberg? Hard, but fair like you say. Rosberg's mistake came the previous grand prix in Monaco when he allowed Hamilton by. He should have just declined (eg- Hungary 2014)

Yes, Mercedes can choose a worse strategy and they still can win. Its a shame that that tyres last so much, 40-50 laps is terrible because the chances for different strategies are reduced drastically.

[Logie]

True and that's Rosberg and Hamilton's problem as team mates. Everytime they go wheel to wheel Rosberg's reaction is one of 'I have to be in front or I'm toast'. Look at yesterday he tried to shove it up the inside because he knew if he didn't pull it off it was game over, in the same way as in Barcelona he knew that if Hamilton had sailed past him when he was in the wrong mode it was game over.

Hamilton was just as harsh on Rosberg yesterday as Rosberg was on Hamilton in Spain. That is just the effect, the cause is Rosberg's desperation to have to be in the lead at the start of race.

Also did anyone else hear Ted Kravitz say that the Germain side of the garage was 'hoping mad' over Hamilton's manoeuvre?

Well, the biggest problem is that Lewis dont respect Nico as a driver, especially when they have to fight each other wheel to wheel. To be fair Lewis has been harsh with Nico many more times than the German. The difference is that the British manages those situations better.

It reminds me the Hill-Schumacher battles. Michael did things to Daimond that he never do to Mika, a driver he respected much more. Battles were tough but clean. Hamilton wouldnt do the same move to Alonso and Vettel, I am quite sure.

Most people forgot about sportsmen/women. Once they have there game head on, they don't care about any one else, they don't care if its their dad/brother/friend/loved one. They want to win, if anyone else was where Nico was the same result would happen.

Its just there both in the best cars and keep ending up in these spots

[Andres125sx]

How did Bottas managed to finsigh in the podium? I didn´t track him along the race, and when I realiced was a bit surprising. I guess 1 stop was best strategy. Maybe Kimi´s blockage helped him?

What a start from Vettel. Mercedes are proving starts are by far their weakest point, but even so Seb start was superb =D>

Rosberg can´t fight wheel to wheel. You can´t win a WDC like this, specially if your team mate is that good. I like the guy, but as a driver I´m afraid he´s several steps down Lewis

Very good race for Max but, did he disobey TOs again? I´m not sure about the radio comunication, did they ask him to let Ric pass?

Unlucky race for Ric, he got stuck behind Mercedes on first corner and Max tood advantage, then stuck behing his team mate, then a mistake flattering his tires... a race to forget

What a race for Carlos!. On a power track, with a year old Ferrari PU, he managed to climb from p20 to p9 and score 2 point, impressive. Kvyat countdown in F1 is accelerating

The question is...what would have happened if Nico would have done the same?

You don´t need to figure it out, he did exactly the same only two races ago, only difference is Nico move cost 43 points to the team (ruined an easy 1-2), while Lewis one only cost 8 points (from p2 to p5 for Nico)

Sincerely, that is what happens when one of your drivers push the other to the grass, and the team say there´s none to blame. Lewis took note and applied same theory yesterday, except situation was a lot more excusable (first corner and he didn´t do any mistake, unlike Nico who pushed Lewis out after his own mistake with PU mapping)

Nico got in return same he did two races ago.

[Logie]

Max said he was saving his car and when asked to not slow Ricc down he said "I can go faster" and he did. In the interviews Ricc didn't seem to bothered by what Max did

[Andres125sx]

That make sense, thanks

[Andres125sx]

Forgot to comment about Ferrari.... OMG Ferrari.... Their strategists should be fired, actually they should have been fired long ago, I lost count how many times they messed it up

Also, their pit-stop mechanics are far from what a team like Ferrari should enjoy, almost 1 second slower than RB, 2,3 vs 3,1 seconds. That´s a lot of time in F1 and specially at the pitstops, since that´s the best chance to overtake, or to be overtaken