Red Bull RB6

[autogyro]

Little grey cells eh Giblet?

That reference sailed right over my head... enlighten me please sir.

Hercule Poiret Giblet
Belgium fictional detective who exercises his little grey cells.

[Pierce89]

Sorry ringo but most of the tyre is not behind the undertray edge.
The effect would be minimal (sorry Adrian)

I actually agree with ringo on this one. There is a high pressure area in front of the tire which would push down on the floor there.

It's common practice for F1 teams to put a surface in front and below a tire to use the stagnation zone's high pressure to create downforce on said surface.

[Raptor22]

unless they readjusted it for park ferme

Ooh, you cynical thing!

But now I come to think about it.... it's not beyond the realms of possibilities that the "adjustment" could be wound back during the final in-lap I suppose, but that would surely be illegal if the DRIVER was operating it.

Would there be anything to prevent such a system from having some form of heat-dependent component which when the car has cooled down for a bit would spring the car back up after having wound down throughout the race distance?

From memory, Ted Kravitz went to Park Ferme some time AFTER the end of the race.

it is NOT ILLEGAL for the driver to operate a ride height adjustment if the car is stationary e.g in parc ferme or during a pitstop.

I think Giblet is correct. The size and geometry of the hole looks like its accommodating extra suspension movement. I wanted to say that it looked as if the suspension arm had elongated the hole but Giblet beat me to the posting of it being elongated to accommodate a ride height adjustment

[Raptor22]

....actually I wonder if they could have a tank sensor (piezo in bottom of tank measuring mass) fitted that provides feedback to a ECU operating a stepper motor in the gearbox to pull the pull rod in and out re-actively to fuel load.

engine off condition returns the system to default (race start setting...)

[timbo]

Well, if ride hide is adjusted to be in the optimum range thru the race, that would mean LESS variation and LESS suspension movement, not more.

[forty-two]

The yellow arrow is pointing to the opening for the pull rod\top wishbone, This hole is missing the small carbon piece to tightly enlose the pushrod\wishbone ends. RBR have removed this, presumably for cooling earlier in the weekend. A similar closing panel gets ftted to the rear leg of the wishbone too, its absent on this photo, but was present earlier in the weekend. The other bits visible inside the hole are heat sheilding around the exhausts, which looked tatty even on Saturday. Comparing the two pics, there's no evidence of heat damage to bodywork pointed out by the yellow arrow.

I have a better pic, but copyright prevents me posting it here.

BTW: The pic also confirmed the small window that allows the exhaust to blow into the diffuser (not clear in one of earlier pics).

I re-watched the "Red button forum" shown after the race on the BBC and they actually talked for a while about Sebastien's car having shed a piece of CF. They showed footage from the rearward facing camera and it appeared to come from the L/H side of the car. David Coulthard actually said that when he first saw it he thought it was a bit of rubber, but looking again it "looks like a bit of carbon".

Perhaps this could explain the apparently missing piece?

[autogyro]

Well, if ride hide is adjusted to be in the optimum range thru the race, that would mean LESS variation and LESS suspension movement, not more.

Not with you Timbo?

The RB6 was very low on the ground through out the race.
It only increased its ride height between going over the finish line and going into parc ferme, where the undertray was then scrapping stones and mud off the rear tyre because it became so close to it.

[forty-two]

unless they readjusted it for park ferme

Ooh, you cynical thing!

But now I come to think about it.... it's not beyond the realms of possibilities that the "adjustment" could be wound back during the final in-lap I suppose, but that would surely be illegal if the DRIVER was operating it.

Would there be anything to prevent such a system from having some form of heat-dependent component which when the car has cooled down for a bit would spring the car back up after having wound down throughout the race distance?

From memory, Ted Kravitz went to Park Ferme some time AFTER the end of the race.

it is NOT ILLEGAL for the driver to operate a ride height adjustment if the car is stationary e.g in parc ferme or during a pitstop.

I think Giblet is correct. The size and geometry of the hole looks like its accommodating extra suspension movement. I wanted to say that it looked as if the suspension arm had elongated the hole but Giblet beat me to the posting of it being elongated to accommodate a ride height adjustment

Surely an adjustment made during a pitstop would be helpful, but a lot of fuel must have burnt off between the pitstop and the end of the race. If adjustment "by the driver" would be illegal WHILE RUNNING, surely this would leave the car either scraping the ground as it left the pitstop and for many laps thereafter, or way too high by the final lap?

[autogyro]

Sorry ringo but most of the tyre is not behind the undertray edge.
The effect would be minimal (sorry Adrian)

I actually agree with ringo on this one. There is a high pressure area in front of the tire which would push down on the floor there.

It's common practice for F1 teams to put a surface in front and below a tire to use the stagnation zone's high pressure to create downforce on said surface.

I agree with the principle but if you look carefuly at the picture, it becomes obvious that not only is the undertray so close to the tyre it is rubbing stones and mud off it but in this condition there is a very high ride height.
By the obvious rubbing of the undertray on the tyre, it shows a narrow mark which proves that only a very tiny frontal area of the tyre is behind the tray to effect the DF component of the tyres high pressure area.
If you now consider the undertray set at a much lower level you will also see that this condition will open out a considerable gap between the edge of the tray and the tyre, this can be confirmed in running pictures. The gap had to be designed into the car to allow for the range of ride height movement or the tray would have fouled on the tyre (it almost does).
The question of course must be, is the ride height movement active and is it therefore active suspension?

[gibells]

very fishy

[forty-two]

The question of course must be, is the ride height movement active and is it therefore active suspension?

I was pondering this one, and I got to thinking...

If a system employed some form of heat dependent device (perhaps something like this: http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/vent2.shtml) which could be warmed by say the exhaust gases or perhaps the air surrounding the engine, which as it got warmer throughout the race would slowly allow the car to descend. Then, when the car cools down again (eg. say at the end of the race), the car would slowly rise back to it's original height.

By my understanding of the definition of the terms "Active" vs "Passive", this would qualify as a Passive system, and would (if legal) be a very simple and neat way of solving the ride height problem.

[segedunum]

it is NOT ILLEGAL for the driver to operate a ride height adjustment if the car is stationary e.g in parc ferme or during a pitstop.

Yes, but is it illegal for a driver to operate a ride height adjustment when the car is stationary in parc ferme to cover up for the fact that it had changed during the race? I think it will be.

These tricks are is as old as the hills, and I'm not sure how this could be policed if you actually allow ride height adjustment of any kind, stationary or not. There will need to be something in the regulations and something for the stewards and scrutineers to ensure that any ride height adjustment system can't be used while the car is moving.

[autogyro]

it is NOT ILLEGAL for the driver to operate a ride height adjustment if the car is stationary e.g in parc ferme or during a pitstop.

Yes, but is it illegal for a driver to operate a ride height adjustment when the car is stationary in parc ferme to cover up for the fact that it had changed during the race? I think it will be.

These tricks are is as old as the hills, and I'm not sure how this could be policed if you actually allow ride height adjustment of any kind, stationary or not. There will need to be something in the regulations and something for the stewards and scrutineers to ensure that any ride height adjustment system can't be used while the car is moving.

I tried to ring Mike Gascoyne about this yesterday but could not get past his PA.
Busy guy.

[segedunum]

I tried to ring Mike Gascoyne about this yesterday but could not get past his PA. Busy guy.

He's probably just seen his budget go up in smoke.

[timbo]

Well, if ride hide is adjusted to be in the optimum range thru the race, that would mean LESS variation and LESS suspension movement, not more.

Not with you Timbo?

The RB6 was very low on the ground through out the race.
It only increased its ride height between going over the finish line and going into parc ferme, where the undertray was then scrapping stones and mud off the rear tyre because it became so close to it.

Well, I mean that the speculation that variable ride height is somehow connected to bigger hole for suspension members are not likely to be true IMO.