Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

[Just_a_fan]

I don't know how anyone can say there should have been no penalty for any driver. Alonso did jump the start and hamilton overtook vettel in pitt lane, then proceeded to push Webber off the track while under a safety car.....

if anything alonso was hard done by coz hamilton should have got at least one penalty....

Have you actually read the thread? The pitlane incident has been done to death and the "safety car" incident didn't happen - they were racing at the point when that "incident" occurred and Vettel squeezed Hamilton in to Webber.

[Just_a_fan]

I know I am adding fuel to the fire, but realistically what did LH expect Vettel to do in the pits? Pull over and let him by?

He probably didn't expect Vettel to move across the track and try to push him in to the working zones outside the garages. There was more than enough room to drive two cars down the pitlane side by side (which is perfectly legal). The rules, however, frown on a driver crowding another off the track (which is what Vettel did to LH in the pitlane).

S'funny how differing views put differing perspectives on things...

[Terrible3]

He probably didn't expect Vettel to move across the track and try to push him in to the working zones outside the garages. There was more than enough room to drive two cars down the pitlane side by side (which is perfectly legal). The rules, however, frown on a driver crowding another off the track (which is what Vettel did to LH in the pitlane).

S'funny how differing views put differing perspectives on things...

Sorry but I don't ever recall going two wide down a pitlane legal in any form of racing. Having two drivers bang wheels in the pitlanes is reckless and endangers not only the drivers but the pit crew. For example in ALMS the vett team got into a heap of trouble for doing exactly this. The truth is that Vettel was released first and at that point it was up to the lolly pop guy to make the call on rushing LH out or playing it safe and letting SV pass. The lolly pop guy made a tough call and tried to get LH out in front but failed to do so. In failing to pull out ahead of the RB, LH should have dropped back behind rather than trying to challenge for position in the speed limited pitlane.

Please site the rule that states that going two wide is perfectly acceptable. I may eat my words but I called it as I saw it. Additionally the webber, hami and Vettel incident is just a racing incident. Do you honestly think Vettel would purposely make a move knowing that it would endanger both LH and MW? For someone who talks about perspectives and views it would seem that yours is a very clouded one.

[Paul Oz]

I know I am adding fuel to the fire, but realistically what did LH expect Vettel to do in the pits? Pull over and let him by?

He probably didn't expect Vettel to move across the track and try to push him in to the working zones outside the garages. There was more than enough room to drive two cars down the pitlane side by side (which is perfectly legal). The rules, however, frown on a driver crowding another off the track (which is what Vettel did to LH in the pitlane).

S'funny how differing views put differing perspectives on things...

Indeed. I'm sure the drivers are on auto in many respects from the box, we've heard them say that before, just waiting for the lollipop to flinch, and strait to the pit lane limiter. No one would be even talking about this if Vettel hadnt squeezed Ham......

Who keeps saying Hamiltons dangerous? I guess thats what happens when you credit a driver like that with your own skills and reactions. Has he EVER caused an accident since he started F1?

I must admit, I thought Lewis would destroy Jenson this year - but its turning out awesome IMO! Fair play to Martin Whitmarsh for having the foresight. Perhaps we'll now get the best of both worlds, now they can learn from each other. Lewis is plainly actually faster, at the moment, but there certainly isnt much in it, and Jens has made the right calls, even if Lewis has driven the wheels off the bloody thing.

[Paul Oz]

Sorry but I don't ever recall going two wide down a pitlane legal in any form of racing. Having two drivers bang wheels in the pitlanes is reckless and endangers not only the drivers but the pit crew. For example in ALMS the vett team got into a heap of trouble for doing exactly this. The truth is that Vettel was released first and at that point it was up to the lolly pop guy to make the call on rushing LH out or playing it safe and letting SV pass. The lolly pop guy made a tough call and tried to get LH out in front but failed to do so. In failing to pull out ahead of the RB, LH should have dropped back behind rather than trying to challenge for position in the speed limited pitlane.

Watch the replays bud - they were released at practically the same time - which is INEVITABLE because Vets pit was arrived at first! They only banged wheels because of Vets actions, not Lewis'.....

[WhiteBlue]

It is not fundamentally unsafe to go through the pit lane side by side but the drivers have to sort it out who is ahead before the pit exit. In this case both drivers received a penalty for unsafe driving. Vettel did not drive on the left side of the fast lane to allow Hamilton to come left as well. Hamilton did not slow down when it became clear he was being pushed into areas where tools were layed out. The penalty was reprimand in both cases. I hope they learn from it.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1 ... ent-39.pdf
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1 ... ent-40.pdf

[andrew]

They all got a light telling off (a reprimand) from Alex Wurz, the former McLaren test driver who investigated the actions of the current McLaren drivers who both drive for the team which he used to test for. So no conflict of interest there then...

Since being a test driver for McLaren, and running in one race in 2005, he's been employed by Williams, Honda and Brawn GP. I see no reason why he'd give anybody from McLaren any special treatment.

Yae I am aware of the teams he has worked with but the only team that he is familier with that was called up on anything was McLaren.

Running 2 abreast in the pitlane is illegal and the car that is behind should give way. The fact that the McLaren was fish tailing on the line marking was pretty dangerous and he should have conceded to Vettel (although Vettel moving over was dadgy also). The McLaren was much faster than the Red Bull and there was no need for their pitlane antics.

Anyway, I though this one was finished as the thread is about the Chinese GP and not just the Vettel/Hamilton pitlane debacle? Perhaps someone wants to set up a thread of their own about this?

[Richard]

Running 2 abreast in the pitlane is illegal

Is it? Which reg?

Anyway, I though this one was finished as the thread is about the Chinese GP and not just the Vettel/Hamilton pitlane debacle? Perhaps someone wants to set up a thread of their own about this?

Would be easier to change the name of this thread to "Pit Lane Ying Yang"

[andrew]

Not sure which reg but I am pretty sure there have been other drivers done in the past for racing in the pitlane.

Either way the stewards decision has been made and some of us think they got it wrong and the Hamilton fans think they got it right. I think this topic has died a death of boredom. So lets not hear anymore about it.

"Pit Lane Ying Yang" does have a certain ring to it!

[komninosm]

I know I am adding fuel to the fire, but realistically what did LH expect Vettel to do in the pits? Pull over and let him by? I dont see what LH was hoping to gain by trying to challenge Vettel for position in the pit lane. Even if he did manage to get past him I can only assume that he would receive a stop and go for his actions. Personally I hope no one receives any penalties next round. If they are to hand out penalties they better tag one onto Button for that reckless restart. Blatant brake checking is not allowed. Perhaps everyone will just get a smack on the wrists.

They all got a light telling off (a reprimand) from Alex Wurz, the former McLaren test driver who investigated the actions of the current McLaren drivers who both drive for the team which he used to test for. So no conflict of interest there then...

And you called the people with the FIARRARI nonsense conspiracy nuts...

[andrew]

OK bare with me in this. Each driver gets some sets of tyres for each race. These are personalised (serial numbers?), right? So if the Ferrari pit crew are waiting for Massa they lay out around the pit stop his tyres (and Alonso's are right beside). But the Alonso passes Massa at the pit entry and they now have to switch all the tyres around. Is there time to get the order and do that? Did they put on Massa's tyres on Alonso's car? Is there a video of Ferrari crew fumbling around? The only other explanation would be it was team orders and they were waiting for Alonso first, but I seriously doubt that.
what would the penalty for this be anyway? I mean for wrong tyres.

Good point....

Let's see if anyone dares answer ;p

I have not seen a video of the pitstop but I guess the easiest thing is for the guy with the wheel gun to have Massa's tyres, say, to his right and Alonso's tyres, say, to his left. They wouldn't loose much if any time, but then one driver will have colder tyres than the other but having said that the cars are only stopped for a few seconds so the tyres wouldn't loose too much temperature.

Or even simpler, there was maybe not any difference between their tyres at this race?

[Remote_Access]

Long time lurker first time poster:

Perhaps people should consider that putting highly-charged, motivated and testosterone-driven young men in the world's fastest cars for the purposes of racing is probably not for the purposes of safety. The pitlane incident may have been dangerous, reckless, bad luck or bad judgement, but it's damn good to see people racing, and such incidents are bound to occur in future.

A lot of people pour poop on Lewis for some of the things he does in an effort to win. Well, history will show that it's that sort of attitude that separates the greats from the goods. We are possibly watching the next great racer of our time - you don't have to love the guy, just enjoy it!

And also, for fans of the sport to be raising the safety flag is in my opinion completely patronising to those that run the sport. If you want safe sport, go watch chess.

[PNSD]

And what a post to open up with!

Fantastic and perfectly said.

[Paul Oz]

And what a post to open up with!

Fantastic and perfectly said.

Here here!

[komninosm]

It was really sad that MSC look like a back marker out there. That was my greatest worry when he announced his comeback plans. Now it seems like it is reality. I want to think that it is something about the car that doesn't work well with him, but I remember Brawn's comments about Michael being able to hide defects of cars with his superb skills. There is no excuse.

Very happy to see Button on top of Hamilton. Buttton definitely benefitted from a relatively straightforward race today, thanks to better decisions from the pit. With Lewis we are seeing the usual fighting spirit again - his was a very convincing drive. Having said that, I still remember some of Button's wins last year - those were very convincing ones as well (despite everyone thinking it was only down to the outright pace of the BGPs). The McL duo might produce a good fight.

It is a bit disappointing to see Reb Bull lacking the power to fight. This here is the first race where Vettel didn't seem to have the equipment to fight for the win. Personally I still have question marks about Seb - whether he is on par with Hamilton/Alonso. We can be sure of his lightning speed over one lap but so far we haven't seen him pulling off a string of passing moves like the way Hamilton or Alonso (or the old Schumacher) do all the time.

Nico continued to impress, and so did Kubica. These two guys just know how to bring points home, don't they? They deserve their current positions in the standings, but I think they'll eventually be let down if their teams don't catch up quickly on car development. Oh, and Petrov was not bad, too.

Finally on the pit incidents. Hamilton's move on Vettel is fine. Alonso's on Massa is NOT. Simply put - you just don't pull that off against your teammate in wet conditions!!

Let's see what they have to say about it after the race:

The passing move on Felipe? If he was not my team mate, there wouldn’t be so much talk about it and for me it was a normal move and it definitely won’t compromise our relationship.

As for the passing move Fernando made, I ended up on a puddle of water coming out of the hairpin and slightly lost control of the car: he managed to get inside me, passing me going into the pit lane. I lost some places because of it, as I had to wait for his stop to be finished.

As for the passing move involving Felipe and Fernando, we only saw it afterwards on the television replay and I think it was just a racing incident and there is absolutely no problem between the two drivers: when you are always racing to win, you can have moments like this.

What they are really saying:

Fernando - It's normal for me to not want to sit behind my teammate waiting for a pit service. I have already done that earlier in the race and I won't let that happen again because it feels like being treated as the #2 driver. As for Felipe, he's MY teammate for God's sake he knows this would happen. So he'll absolutely be fine with it.

Felipe - Yeah fxxk that.

Stefano - Huh? What? Oh! You mean Fernando overtook Felipe at the pit lane entry? Oh... I didn't realize that cos I was only watching TV. I might as well have been watching another channel when that happened. Yeah but I'm sure, yeah, Felipe knew there would be moments like this so that's fine.

I am at the verge of declaring I am not a Ferrari fan anymore.

They didn't know it? So did they put Massa's tyres on Alonso?