Flexible wings controversy 2010

[strad]

[xpensive]

Oh come on strad, this frequency-theory is just as plausible as Adrian Newey doing an Uri Geller, no?

[strad]

hahahahahaha

[SiLo]

Yeah please stop wasting your time thinking about frequencies, its just not plausible. The most likely thing is the layering of the carbon fibre, and possible a bending nose too.

[nlacosta93]

I understand that the test for the wings have now been altered to that a 100 kg weight will be placed onto the front wing and be allowed 20 mm of deflection compared to the previous 50 kg and 10 mm of deflection.

[747heavy]

a video (with slow mos) about the Red Bull wing flexing can be seen here:
Nothing new, but some may like to have a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkMQt-Ig ... re=related

and some sci-fi stuff for the open minded or conspiration theorists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU78lAJR ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PWdfpwk ... re=related

non-newtonian fluid in frequency response,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zoTKXXN ... 1&index=25

[mep]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zoTKXXN ... 1&index=25[/youtube]
Thats really nice thanks for sharing.
Seems like its eaven very easy to do yourself. Just cornstarch and water.

Something to put into a damper.
Or maybe better not I guess it would rise the forces to infinite.
How about the oposite?
Fluids that get liquid when force is applied or shear viskos fluids.

[wrcsti]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zoTKXXN ... 1&index=25[/youtube]
Thats really nice thanks for sharing.
Seems like its eaven very easy to do yourself. Just cornstarch and water.

Something to put into a damper.
Or maybe better not I guess it would rise the forces to infinite.
How about the oposite?
Fluids that get liquid when force is applied or shear viskos fluids.

ITS ALIVE!!!!!

[Afterburner]

It's weird Ferrari got it's front wing "working" when they adapted a 3 element front wing like red bull, i think flexing it's more related to the 3 elements than the frequency thing.

[Just_a_fan]

McLaren have the same style of split main plane outer section as the Red Bull and Ferrari (and have had all season) so this aspect of the front wing isn't issue.

Looking at the design of the interface of the outer portion to the central main plane shows that the McLaren is much chunkier than the RB and it's the method of linking these sections that is almost certainly the key to flexibility.

[Afterburner]

I'm not saying the wing flex due the 3 elements but i bet flexing and 3 elements are connected, some sort of aero mechanism.

[avatar]

RE: vibrating wing

I don't think anyone's running it (can't see anyone getting something based on turning vibration to their advantage, right without some failures on track).

Harmonic resonance is just a possible tool for inducing a (harmonic) vibration at 1 frequency in part of the chassis from another frequency already present in the system. Vibrations aren't really Sci fi. The resonance won't magically melt the wing (which I get the feeling is what Strad thought I meant).

The 2 effects as I saw it that could be used are:

> Low frequency/long wavelength vibration (less feasible imho)
- the wing would effectively be trying to "flap" as the wave travels along it
- on the "downstroke" (for the want of a better word), a additional force would be applied in the same direction as the pressure above the wing.
- the force of the aero would dampen the upstroke. (+ rob the energy from the vibration, preventing any sustained "true" resonance & likely making the energy demand higher than what's available)
- my thought was that there is potential here to use the additional downward pressure to actuate a "cranking" mechanism(?) in [the structure of] the wing.

> High frequency vibration
- stiffening effect (can be induced deformation - vibration applied drawing the structure into a different shape, stiffening it against variation from that shape)
- effectively this could enable vibration to induce a curve in the wing, or conversely (with different structure)stiffen a flat wing.
- someone's always already written a paper on just about any idea (or in this case a similar application of the effect): adaptive tuned vibration absorber with variable shape stiffness element

- I don't have a clue what the direct effect of high frequency oscillation would be on aero performance.... Could be bad, could be good.

[SiLo]

And what happens when it resonates at it's natural frequency? Which there is a very high chance of happening because of the large variations in vibrations. The thing would explode/fall apart because the carbon fibre makes it relatively brittle.

[Richard]

Well well well - Who said there is no relationship between F1 and road cars ...

the front grille features deformable winglets that lower at high speeds, in order to offer reduced drag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_458_Italia#Design

*tongue in cheek*

[forty-two]

And what happens when it resonates at it's natural frequency? Which there is a very high chance of happening because of the large variations in vibrations. The thing would explode/fall apart because the carbon fibre makes it relatively brittle.

And a suitably skilled design engineer would build in a damping mechanism (which might LOOK like a support strut of course!) to counter this very problem. If they really worked at this, the damping mechanism could even be the very same part which actually enables the flexing of the wing to it's lower position.