2025 McLaren F1 Team

[Ben1980]

Im guessing a discussion was had with Lando over stopping second, he didn't just offer it out on his own back. It was always to his detriment so negotiated which seems fair.

And, Leclerc would have been a risk if the same thing happened with the gun, I think he would likely have been ahead.

[geogate]

I think in the last two seasons of the pit wall managing the drivers, the only error that was made was Stella not getting on radio and telling Lando to do as he was being told, without all that begging silliness (Hungary 2024).
I cant think of a team that have handled two of their own drivers challenging for the championship better than this team has.
So if anyone thinks they are non too bright - you will have to just lump it as they are pretty comfortable with how they are doing things

[Watto]

I'm amazed that people completely misunderstand the whole situation.

...It was because Norris accepted to pit second (so Oscar is protected) with the understanding that Oscar will not undercut him. ...

All-risks insurance. You go first, I get the spot, whatever happens

No they didn’t. The only thing I’m going to say about Mercedes in the McLaren thread is that Merc didn’t let them race- particularly through the Bottas era.

Bottas was a Nr.2 and the behavior of Mercedes in seasons after 2019 was similarly poor, albeit I strongly doubt, that what you say is true to full extend.
I am obviously speaking about Ham vs. Ros. There they also had a 1sec advantage to the rest and at least allowed a more or less genuine fight.

Back on topic. Your post ifs further proof of the criticism Mclaren receive. ...
That’s the sad thing, not what McLaren are doing but that people can’t enjoy a race if their preference isn’t winning it.

Well, address the nonsense like the ideas of favoring strategy in Hun. But I am not criticizing anything that is not true. I do not really care who wins, but I hate it if they deliberately make the race a boredom festival on their end because they have the championship in the bag.

There wasn't sufficient reason for McLaren to hold out as long as they did for a SC, they were creating both risks and internal tensions. If Lando was happy to offer his teammate first stop (with just over 3 seconds in hand), that could be seen as slightly reckless as an undercut could be up to 2 seconds - not a lot of margin, but that was Lando's decision. On balance I'm glad Oscar chose to play it straight, and with less hoo-hah than he received last year at Hungary.

I think the McLaren pit wall, on-the-day brains trust aren't very bright, AND at management level, they are playing an almost impossible game to be between the Mercedes extremes of the Ham v Bot prescribed, "move over #2", and Ham v Ros all out internal war. I would prefer to see something closer to the latter, albeit with a little more subtlety (remembering British fans, that BOTH were guilty of underhand stuff). We (for the moment at least) have two classier personalities. but that opens the door for many fans to criticise their being too civil. I think in totality we need to wait. The last few rounds are probably going to get quite spicy - that is unless Piastri seals the deal with a string of victories.

That would probably be my only criticism if it all, I am not sure any of the multi WC would even give the opportunity of an undercut even if there is a we promise no undercuts. Lewis was pretty ruthless when the WC was close - maybe a little more team orientated when the result didn't matter. Not a chance Max would risk it, and I don't think Oscar would either.Lando I think maybe needs to be a little more selfish - yes the team game when its warranted play within the rules but seek any advantage you can - yes it could backfire and you had the worse pitstop that is the swings and roundabouts of racing.


But that Lando made it clear he would pit first if there was a risk of an undercut and over give Oscar first choice if there was no undercut, then they had to make that call.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

I'm amazed that people completely misunderstand the whole situation.

This was not about the slow stop. This was not the reason Norris was given his position back. It was because Norris accepted to pit second (so Oscar is protected) with the understanding that Oscar will not undercut him. They did the same thing in Hungary, Norris was under threat, he was given priority to stop even though he was behind Oscar on track, because of that priority stop he emerged ahead of Piastri and steamed away.

If Norris pit first, had a slow stop and then Piastri went to pits and ended up ahead, there would be no swap or talk of swap.

This is their way of ensuring that team can utilize "team first" strategies of protecting the driver under threat, without the first driver being undermined. It helped them get 1-2 in Hungary 2024, it helped them get 2-3 here.

Except, LeClerc was too far behind to pose an undercut threat. Norris wanted protection against Piastri getting a possible SC free pitstop, in case he pits first. Everyone (including media and Youtubers) seem to be missing this point. Norris was NOT being 'benevolent and generous towards his teammate'. Andrea Stella dressed this up as 'stopping Piastri first to protect against leClerc undercut'. Simply not the case, LeClerc was 25 seconds behind, and a 20 second pitstop would still leave a 5 second gap. Even if LeClerc was 1 second per lap faster, that would still leave 5 laps.

Pitstop at Monza under normal racing conditions cost you 25 seconds to the car behind, not 20. Under SC it's closer to 15.

So Leclerc was very much a potential threat to Oscar.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

I wonder whether the dynamic in the team will change once the WCC is wrapped up?

[basti313]

There wasn't sufficient reason for McLaren to hold out as long as they did for a SC, they were creating both risks and internal tensions.

I do not really understand, what you want to say with this sentence to be honest...
I think their error or what I call unfair thing against each spectator happened around the time Leclerc pitted or even before. I think lap 25 was a perfect and very obvious window to put pressure on Ver.

If Lando was happy to offer his teammate first stop (with just over 3 seconds in hand), that could be seen as slightly reckless as an undercut could be up to 2 seconds - not a lot of margin, but that was Lando's decision. On balance I'm glad Oscar chose to play it straight, and with less hoo-hah than he received last year at Hungary.

If you listen to the team radios, there was nothing reckless. They told Pia, before the stop that they switch back in case on an undercut. Not much to discuss. As I said, there is simply no competition.

I think the McLaren pit wall, on-the-day brains trust aren't very bright, AND at management level, they are playing an almost impossible game to be between the Mercedes extremes of the Ham v Bot prescribed, "move over #2", and Ham v Ros all out internal war.

I do not thing we are anywhere between this. This is a completely separate case. We see a very strange handling of the lead car combined with no on-track racing. "clinical"...means only DRS passes...on an equal car. Good luck with that.

We (for the moment at least) have two classier personalities.

Do we? Team radio does not sound like that.

Pitstop at Monza under normal racing conditions cost you 25 seconds to the car behind, not 20. Under SC it's closer to 15.

So Leclerc was very much a potential threat to Oscar.

Simply no. Just look at the gaps.

[Macklaren]

I'm not sure if we all saw the same race but when PIA emerged from his stop, LEC was only a few car lengths behind him. McL rolled the SC gambit and that meant a huge gap to VER and LEC closing in. Otherwise they could have pulled a Max in Monaco and waited for the SC until the last lap

[rbirules]

I'm not sure if we all saw the same race but when PIA emerged from his stop, LEC was only a few car lengths behind him. McL rolled the SC gambit and that meant a huge gap to VER and LEC closing in. Otherwise they could have pulled a Max in Monaco and waited for the SC until the last lap

Based on the timing screen shown on the Sky feed, Oscar was about 28 seconds ahead of Charles when he pitted (6.5 seconds to Max and 21.5 seconds between Max and Charles). After exiting the pits the timing took a little while to update and Oscar had a 4.5 second lead going into turn 1.

Re-watching that part of the race . . . Charles was entering the parabolica when Oscar's pit stop was finished. Charles was at the start/finish line (beginning of straight) when Oscar was at pit exit. Charles was not "only a few car lengths behind him", he was 100 meters if not more behind him. Lando was probably 4-5 car lenghts behind Oscar when he exits the pits after his stop, and he easily fits in the gap between Oscar and Charles and is closer to Oscar than Charles.

Doesn't seem like the threat from Charles was severe or imminent. I think he could have easily waited another lap to allow Lando to pit first.

[Macklaren]

I'm not sure if we all saw the same race but when PIA emerged from his stop, LEC was only a few car lengths behind him. McL rolled the SC gambit and that meant a huge gap to VER and LEC closing in. Otherwise they could have pulled a Max in Monaco and waited for the SC until the last lap

Based on the timing screen shown on the Sky feed, Oscar was about 28 seconds ahead of Charles when he pitted (6.5 seconds to Max and 21.5 seconds between Max and Charles).

It's a 25 second pit delta and 3 seconds is hardly enough of a gap to send Oscar on another tour on 43 lap old mediums

[BMMR61]

We (for the moment at least) have two classier personalities.

Basti - "Do we? Team radio does not sound like that."

I can't summon the energy to respond to your other refutations, mainly because I can't understand your objections. But this one (comparing our drivers' behaviour against how Ham and Ros behaved) - how about this at Abu Dhabi at the season deciding finale in 2016 - "Lewis, this is Paddy. Pick up your pace, this is an order." Radio silence, no response.

I thought Lando was somewhat cranky at Hungary last year not giving back the lead to Piastri to score a deserved maiden F1 win but more an embarrassment than a disgrace.

[Ben1980]

Leclerc was at one point 3.7 behind. Roll in a slow stop and another lap out, its getting twitchy.

[rbirules]

I'm not sure if we all saw the same race but when PIA emerged from his stop, LEC was only a few car lengths behind him. McL rolled the SC gambit and that meant a huge gap to VER and LEC closing in. Otherwise they could have pulled a Max in Monaco and waited for the SC until the last lap

Based on the timing screen shown on the Sky feed, Oscar was about 28 seconds ahead of Charles when he pitted (6.5 seconds to Max and 21.5 seconds between Max and Charles).

It's a 25 second pit delta and 3 seconds is hardly enough of a gap to send Oscar on another tour on 43 lap old mediums

I don't know how precise that 25 seconds is, and it's obviously making assumptions and using averages to come up with that estimate. All I know is Oscar was about 28 seconds ahead when he entered the pits, and 4.5 seconds ahead as he went into turn 1 with a quick stop. With an average stop (adding 0.5 to 1.0 seconds to his stationary time) it would have been closer to a 3.5 or 4 second lead. Those are observable facts.

I think Oscar had a 28.3 or 28.4 second lead at the start of the previous lap so he lost 0.3 to 0.4 seconds to Charles in one lap. If he lost the same on the next lap by staying out he's looking at a 3.0 to 3.5 second lead with a normal pitstop.

They could have also decided to pit Lando even sooner and still pit Oscar on the lap they pitted him on. They weren't going to catch Max, the SC wasn't going to give them the lead at that point any longer, and they still had a decent but shrinking buffer to Charles. They were under no pressure, but started creating it by waiting.

Again, my post was because you claimed he came out only a few car lengths in front of Charles and that is just not true. Lando came out only a few car lengths behind Oscar the following lap (and was closer to Oscar than Charles) with the gap between Oscar and Charles not really changing.

[basti313]

Leclerc was at one point 3.7 behind. Roll in a slow stop and another lap out, its getting twitchy.

Well, then they just need to stop playing around a lap earlier. But I think you are missing, that Oscar at this point was the faster car. There was not really danger, as the gap to Lec was really only going down slowly. In fact, they put Lando into more trouble in my point of view.

I can't summon the energy to respond to your other refutations, mainly because I can't understand your objections.

I do not think there are refutations or objections. I do not disagree per se with what you say, I just feel that this is no competition, so I fail to put it into the middle with Merc.

But this one (comparing our drivers' behaviour against how Ham and Ros behaved) - how about this at Abu Dhabi at the season deciding finale in 2016 - "Lewis, this is Paddy. Pick up your pace, this is an order." Radio silence, no response.

That there is other eye rolling team radios in F1 I would never doubt. I just fail to hear anything I would call "classy". Especially the "debris on the racing line" thing in lap 43 was one of these things far away from "classy".

[Emag]

They opened way to these clowneries because the "strategy" was completely brain-dead. I mean it's so bad you can't defend it from any perspective. Pure hopium-based.

The race, pace-wise, was lost. Max's pace on the hard tire was exceptionally quick, much faster than other rivals on hard so it was pretty obvious soon enough after Max pit, that the softs wouldn't be enough to bridge the gap. So what do they do? They go on for almost 6-7 more laps than they should have gone while on horrible pace while their drivers were struggling for balance (you can look at the lap chart, they're all over the place). And that's all because they were hoping for a safety car (honestly, there is no other reason why they waited that long), which is frankly ridiculous, as with the pace Max had, he was out of their safety car window after 2 laps already. Should have just bit the bullet at that point and pit for the hards.

Instead they delay, allowing Leclerc to close up to the duo almost 1 second per lap essentially killing all the gap that was built in the first stint. The team is then put on this awkward situation where Oscar risks losing track position to Leclerc so they have to break their own intra-team rules and pit the driver behind first, not only giving him an undercut on a much tighter gap (3.7s if I recall correctly), but also risking a messed up stop for the lead driver which is what ended up happening.

And for what? Even if they got their safety car, Max would have gone by just like he did on the first stint as soon as they went racing. The "strategy" was incredibly dumb watching it live, and it's completely undefendable and absurd in retrospective.

I just feel bad for the drivers that have to deal with the backlash from these stupid pitwall blunders.

[CjC]

They should have tried the undercut with Norris on the hards and pressured Verstappen and crew. Even if that gave Max a 5 lap delta advantage it would have been better than leaving it till the last 10 laps and run out of laps to do anything regardless of the compound chosen