2025 McLaren F1 Team

[mwillems]

I'm not sure if we all saw the same race but when PIA emerged from his stop, LEC was only a few car lengths behind him. McL rolled the SC gambit and that meant a huge gap to VER and LEC closing in. Otherwise they could have pulled a Max in Monaco and waited for the SC until the last lap

Based on the timing screen shown on the Sky feed, Oscar was about 28 seconds ahead of Charles when he pitted (6.5 seconds to Max and 21.5 seconds between Max and Charles). After exiting the pits the timing took a little while to update and Oscar had a 4.5 second lead going into turn 1.

Re-watching that part of the race . . . Charles was entering the parabolica when Oscar's pit stop was finished. Charles was at the start/finish line (beginning of straight) when Oscar was at pit exit. Charles was not "only a few car lengths behind him", he was 100 meters if not more behind him. Lando was probably 4-5 car lenghts behind Oscar when he exits the pits after his stop, and he easily fits in the gap between Oscar and Charles and is closer to Oscar than Charles.

Doesn't seem like the threat from Charles was severe or imminent. I think he could have easily waited another lap to allow Lando to pit first.

Unless you have a 6 second pitstop....



I mean, should they have left Piastri out? Another lap and hed have a 2 second lead when he came back out.

This thread has lost its mind.

[emp]

They opened way to these clowneries because the "strategy" was completely brain-dead. I mean it's so bad you can't defend it from any perspective. Pure hopium-based.

The race, pace-wise, was lost. Max's pace on the hard tire was exceptionally quick, much faster than other rivals on hard so it was pretty obvious soon enough after Max pit, that the softs wouldn't be enough to bridge the gap. So what do they do? They go on for almost 6-7 more laps than they should have gone while on horrible pace while their drivers were struggling for balance (you can look at the lap chart, they're all over the place). And that's all because they were hoping for a safety car (honestly, there is no other reason why they waited that long), which is frankly ridiculous, as with the pace Max had, he was out of their safety car window after 2 laps already. Should have just bit the bullet at that point and pit for the hards.

Instead they delay, allowing Leclerc to close up to the duo almost 1 second per lap essentially killing all the gap that was built in the first stint. The team is then put on this awkward situation where Oscar risks losing track position to Leclerc so they have to break their own intra-team rules and pit the driver behind first, not only giving him an undercut on a much tighter gap (3.7s if I recall correctly), but also risking a messed up stop for the lead driver which is what ended up happening.

And for what? Even if they got their safety car, Max would have gone by just like he did on the first stint as soon as they went racing. The "strategy" was incredibly dumb watching it live, and it's completely undefendable and absurd in retrospective.

I just feel bad for the drivers that have to deal with the backlash from these stupid pitwall blunders.

Well said. All the shenanigans that came after are the result of this awful strategy. I said it during the race here and I saw that you said it too, braindead and absolutely slow to react. That is not what you want from the current and future champions, especially as next year they might have some battles with other teams on their hands, and they won't be as awful.

[Seerix]

They opened way to these clowneries because the "strategy" was completely brain-dead. I mean it's so bad you can't defend it from any perspective. Pure hopium-based.

The race, pace-wise, was lost. Max's pace on the hard tire was exceptionally quick, much faster than other rivals on hard so it was pretty obvious soon enough after Max pit, that the softs wouldn't be enough to bridge the gap. So what do they do? They go on for almost 6-7 more laps than they should have gone while on horrible pace while their drivers were struggling for balance (you can look at the lap chart, they're all over the place). And that's all because they were hoping for a safety car (honestly, there is no other reason why they waited that long), which is frankly ridiculous, as with the pace Max had, he was out of their safety car window after 2 laps already. Should have just bit the bullet at that point and pit for the hards.

Instead they delay, allowing Leclerc to close up to the duo almost 1 second per lap essentially killing all the gap that was built in the first stint. The team is then put on this awkward situation where Oscar risks losing track position to Leclerc so they have to break their own intra-team rules and pit the driver behind first, not only giving him an undercut on a much tighter gap (3.7s if I recall correctly), but also risking a messed up stop for the lead driver which is what ended up happening.

And for what? Even if they got their safety car, Max would have gone by just like he did on the first stint as soon as they went racing. The "strategy" was incredibly dumb watching it live, and it's completely undefendable and absurd in retrospective.

I just feel bad for the drivers that have to deal with the backlash from these stupid pitwall blunders.

They could have pitted for hards along with Max and finished p2/p3 7s behind him. Then you or someone else would call them braindead bcz they 'did not try something different'. Though crowd. Impossible to please.

[karana]

They opened way to these clowneries because the "strategy" was completely brain-dead. I mean it's so bad you can't defend it from any perspective. Pure hopium-based.

The race, pace-wise, was lost. Max's pace on the hard tire was exceptionally quick, much faster than other rivals on hard so it was pretty obvious soon enough after Max pit, that the softs wouldn't be enough to bridge the gap. So what do they do? They go on for almost 6-7 more laps than they should have gone while on horrible pace while their drivers were struggling for balance (you can look at the lap chart, they're all over the place). And that's all because they were hoping for a safety car (honestly, there is no other reason why they waited that long), which is frankly ridiculous, as with the pace Max had, he was out of their safety car window after 2 laps already. Should have just bit the bullet at that point and pit for the hards.

Instead they delay, allowing Leclerc to close up to the duo almost 1 second per lap essentially killing all the gap that was built in the first stint. The team is then put on this awkward situation where Oscar risks losing track position to Leclerc so they have to break their own intra-team rules and pit the driver behind first, not only giving him an undercut on a much tighter gap (3.7s if I recall correctly), but also risking a messed up stop for the lead driver which is what ended up happening.

And for what? Even if they got their safety car, Max would have gone by just like he did on the first stint as soon as they went racing. The "strategy" was incredibly dumb watching it live, and it's completely undefendable and absurd in retrospective.

I just feel bad for the drivers that have to deal with the backlash from these stupid pitwall blunders.

Don't forget that gaps increase under VSC/SC, with that in mind I think Norris was still within the Safety car window until a lap or two before McLaren did their stops.

And I honestly don't see how you can be so certain that Norris could not have kept the lead if he would be ahead after an SC.

[rbirules]

I'm not sure if we all saw the same race but when PIA emerged from his stop, LEC was only a few car lengths behind him. McL rolled the SC gambit and that meant a huge gap to VER and LEC closing in. Otherwise they could have pulled a Max in Monaco and waited for the SC until the last lap

Based on the timing screen shown on the Sky feed, Oscar was about 28 seconds ahead of Charles when he pitted (6.5 seconds to Max and 21.5 seconds between Max and Charles). After exiting the pits the timing took a little while to update and Oscar had a 4.5 second lead going into turn 1.

Re-watching that part of the race . . . Charles was entering the parabolica when Oscar's pit stop was finished. Charles was at the start/finish line (beginning of straight) when Oscar was at pit exit. Charles was not "only a few car lengths behind him", he was 100 meters if not more behind him. Lando was probably 4-5 car lenghts behind Oscar when he exits the pits after his stop, and he easily fits in the gap between Oscar and Charles and is closer to Oscar than Charles.

Doesn't seem like the threat from Charles was severe or imminent. I think he could have easily waited another lap to allow Lando to pit first.

Unless you have a 6 second pitstop....



I mean, should they have left Piastri out? Another lap and hed have a 2 second lead when he came back out.

This thread has lost its mind.

Yes, a long pit stop can ruin any tight strategy. That's always a, slight, risk. On the lap they chose to pit Oscar, if he had a 6 second pit Charles would have actually been "only a few car lengths behind, or right on him. But you don't plan every strategy around such a small risk.

One more lap and a "normal" (not six seconds, and not 1.9 seconds) and Oscar is probably 3ish seconds clear of Charles.

What I am saying they should have done, instead of playing games, they should have pit both Lando and Oscar a few laps sooner than they did. As has been pointed out (by Emag and others) there was no point in waiting anymore. They weren't catching Max, once a SC wasn't going to give them the lead anymore, and Charles was slowly eating away their safety margin they should have pulled the trigger on the pit stops. Could they have left it one more lap for Oscar assuming normal circumstances, to pit Lando first? yes, I think they could have, but they never needed to put themselves in that position where margins could be tight (they weren't in reality) to begin with.

Lando wasn't passed by Oscar because he pitted a lap later, he was passed because he happened to get the much slower pit stop. That happens. If they reversed pit order would it have happened to Oscar? We'll never know.

[PierreW]

I thought the tactic of McLaren was fine, they did what they had to do in order to hope to win with , for once, a slower car compared to Max's RB. The safety car was their only hope. Maybe they could have tried to split the strategy to monitor if the soft were working well sooner but the other driver would have screamed foul since they are mainly competing against each other.

Even when Max was quickly back within the SC window, I understood why they waited, even if they would have lost positions, they would have soft tyres behind Max for a restart. They had to try and they gave up when Leclerc started to become a threat.

I also have no problems with the decision to swap the drivers. They took a risk for the victory, it did not work, they had to protect Piastri from Leclerc and Norris suffered for this, they had to repair that in order to be fair. You can call that micromanaging but at the end it's fair. I say that as an outside as I am not a fan of Mclaren. They did nothing wrong, they were just slower for once.

[mwillems]

Based on the timing screen shown on the Sky feed, Oscar was about 28 seconds ahead of Charles when he pitted (6.5 seconds to Max and 21.5 seconds between Max and Charles). After exiting the pits the timing took a little while to update and Oscar had a 4.5 second lead going into turn 1.

Re-watching that part of the race . . . Charles was entering the parabolica when Oscar's pit stop was finished. Charles was at the start/finish line (beginning of straight) when Oscar was at pit exit. Charles was not "only a few car lengths behind him", he was 100 meters if not more behind him. Lando was probably 4-5 car lenghts behind Oscar when he exits the pits after his stop, and he easily fits in the gap between Oscar and Charles and is closer to Oscar than Charles.

Doesn't seem like the threat from Charles was severe or imminent. I think he could have easily waited another lap to allow Lando to pit first.

Unless you have a 6 second pitstop....



I mean, should they have left Piastri out? Another lap and hed have a 2 second lead when he came back out.

This thread has lost its mind.

Yes, a long pit stop can ruin any tight strategy. That's always a, slight, risk. On the lap they chose to pit Oscar, if he had a 6 second pit Charles would have actually been "only a few car lengths behind, or right on him. But you don't plan every strategy around such a small risk.

One more lap and a "normal" (not six seconds, and not 1.9 seconds) and Oscar is probably 3ish seconds clear of Charles.

What I am saying they should have done, instead of playing games, they should have pit both Lando and Oscar a few laps sooner than they did. As has been pointed out (by Emag and others) there was no point in waiting anymore. They weren't catching Max, once a SC wasn't going to give them the lead anymore, and Charles was slowly eating away their safety margin they should have pulled the trigger on the pit stops. Could they have left it one more lap for Oscar assuming normal circumstances, to pit Lando first? yes, I think they could have, but they never needed to put themselves in that position where margins could be tight (they weren't in reality) to begin with.

Lando wasn't passed by Oscar because he pitted a lap later, he was passed because he happened to get the much slower pit stop. That happens. If they reversed pit order would it have happened to Oscar? We'll never know.

They were playing for the SC, they'll pit as late as they can unless there is a threat to third. They won't just NOT do that because some fans might get their knickers in a twist or see an opportunity for drama.

They didn't need to strategisr for a 6 second stop for Lando, its an outlier and was always in the teams control.

They also won't pit Oscar 2 laps before Lando due to undercut so for equality they kept both out.

1 crash in 1 lap could have made all the difference.

Bravo Mclaren, push everything everywhere to the limit. Love the fact that they ignore all the noise and do.their thing.

Exactly why they are my team.

[Ben1980]

Leclerc was at one point 3.7 behind. Roll in a slow stop and another lap out, its getting twitchy.

Well, then they just need to stop playing around a lap earlier. But I think you are missing, that Oscar at this point was the faster car. There was not really danger, as the gap to Lec was really only going down slowly. In fact, they put Lando into more trouble in my point of view.

I can't summon the energy to respond to your other refutations, mainly because I can't understand your objections.

I do not think there are refutations or objections. I do not disagree per se with what you say, I just feel that this is no competition, so I fail to put it into the middle with Merc.

But this one (comparing our drivers' behaviour against how Ham and Ros behaved) - how about this at Abu Dhabi at the season deciding finale in 2016 - "Lewis, this is Paddy. Pick up your pace, this is an order." Radio silence, no response.

That there is other eye rolling team radios in F1 I would never doubt. I just fail to hear anything I would call "classy". Especially the "debris on the racing line" thing in lap 43 was one of these things far away from "classy".

Yes, they probably should have done it a lap earlier, but that's not really the point. The point was at the time they did it, if they had followed convention there was a chance Oscar gets caught out by Leclerc, if he had a Lando style stop. So, doing what they did, was understandable.

[Ben1980]

In Monaco when Max hung it out to the last lap, it was tge correct strategy and only way to win the race.

Its similar here. They werent winning on pace, they werent undercutting Max, from 5 seconds. And the tyres werent dropping.

You try and long it out and hope, without risking, hence Lando negotiates on the stop.

If a SC comes out, they are on newer softs to used Hards, and in a fight. Its the only real punchers chance.

There was a problem it was rectified.

[Emag]

They could have pitted for hards along with Max and finished p2/p3 7s behind him. Then you or someone else would call them braindead bcz they 'did not try something different'. Though crowd. Impossible to please.

I can't speak for the others but I wouldn't call them anything. The pace was what it was, and in Monza, they were just outclassed by quite a significant margin by Max. The only point they were quicker is when Max's tires fell off 30 odd laps into the first stint. Before that it was just no contest. You can't do much when the pace isn't there

Don't forget that gaps increase under VSC/SC, with that in mind I think Norris was still within the Safety car window until a lap or two before McLaren did their stops.

And I honestly don't see how you can be so certain that Norris could not have kept the lead if he would be ahead after an SC.

Yes, when I made that comment it was made with the VSC/SC offset into consideration. Max was close to 2 seconds per lap faster than them (on 2 outlier laps) and he was safe from a safety car stop really soon after he pit because of that pace. In only 3 laps, he de-facto increased the gap by 4.4 seconds.

And I can be fairly certain they would have gotten overtaken on-track by Max, because such was his pace. On the first stint, he overtook Lando the next lap after he let him through and then proceeded to go 3-4 tenths per lap faster. If a safety car did happen, they would either be forced to fit used softs and do more laps than they wanted to, or fit hards and be on the same tires as Max where he would have the same advantage he had on stint 1.

And it's not like they had blistering pace with the softs either. Max pushed for the fastest lap and showed he was pretty much on pace with the McLarens on used softs while on Hards. Add to that scenario a pissed off Max for being unlucky, you even risk a DNF from a divebomb but let's not go so deep on made-up what-if scenarios.

The point is, the strategy did nothing but add headaches and potential for trouble behind with Leclerc.
They should have called off the safety-car wait after the 2nd lap already because frankly it was pretty damn obvious it wasn't going to work with Max being 1s per lap faster than the rest of the hard runners. The pace was crushing.

In any case, McLaren are fully aware they're lacking on the pitwall strategy department, that's why new brainpower is coming from RedBull soon so it's not like they're sitting still on that area.

[CjC]

We (for the moment at least) have two classier personalities.

Basti - "Do we? Team radio does not sound like that."

I can't summon the energy to respond to your other refutations, mainly because I can't understand your objections. But this one (comparing our drivers' behaviour against how Ham and Ros behaved) - how about this at Abu Dhabi at the season deciding finale in 2016 - "Lewis, this is Paddy. Pick up your pace, this is an order." Radio silence, no response.

I thought Lando was somewhat cranky at Hungary last year not giving back the lead to Piastri to score a deserved maiden F1 win but more an embarrassment than a disgrace.

Lewis the immortal is allowed act like that though

However, neither McLaren driver is allowed to, mainly due to the fact that they only drive for the midfield team which is McLaren

[CjC]

So much pissing and moaning that this seem to slip by:



Like I say Mclaren are currently enjoying their most successful season and we are currently still enduring 27 hours of criticism.
Keep up the shite work Mclaren it’s successful

[Slahinki]

So much pissing and moaning that this seem to slip by:



Like I say Mclaren are currently enjoying their most successful season and we are currently still enduring 27 hours of criticism.
Keep up the shite work Mclaren it’s successful

The Formula 1 fandom and media has been utterly unbearable as of late. Nothing but whining, hate and conspiracies.