Formula E

[J.A.W.]

The fact that electric motor torque actually starts falling from low rpm - is what makes me doubt their racing pedigree..

Except that it doesn't start falling from low RPM.

Electric motors in use today have a rated current which corresponds to the thermal limits of the windings. This current is able to be delivered from zero until usually about 90% of the maximum motor speed. Only after this point does the torque, being proportional to the current, also start to drop.

At the end of the day, its the power/energy output which is determining the overall performance - not the torque. The discussion on torque is a lot of handwaving and ultimately irrelevant.

Tim, is it not torque/time = hp - which propels the vehicle?

As shown by the dyno chart posted..
..a practicable/continuous electric mill torque curve demonstrates a steady decline from the get-go..
..sure the rpm chases it, but really, is it a bit like running uphill..

[Tim.Wright]

I'm not going to start the torque speed power debate, but no - your equation is wrong.

There is no reason why a flat torque curve will make racing boring. It's such a small factor in the overall scheme of things which make the racing interesting that you can neglect it. You can simply add more torque if you want the cars harder to control.

I'm yet to hear a non handwavy explanation as to why an electric powertrain will make the racing boring.

If you are grip limited (not power limited) on the exit of every corner, what the hell does it matter what shape your torque curve is?

[J.A.W.]

A falling torque curve is predictably less likely to produce traction loss/sliding than a pumping/increasing type..

[Tim.Wright]

A falling torque curve is predictably less likely to produce traction loss/sliding than a pumping/increasing type..

Regarding your torque curve theory - like I asked before, of what significance is the shape of the torque curve when you are grip limited? Remember that throttle pedal commands are converted to (usually) a torque demand from the engine. This means that a constant ramp input of throttle pedal on the exit of a corner will result in a constant ramp up of torque from the engine. The "shape" of the full throttle torque response is almost completely irrelevant

[Richard]

So the only technical arguments against a flatter torque profile are that they are "anodyne", "boring", "dumbing down", "ugh", they don't sound like an ICE, and they don't look as pretty as an ICE.

Posts have been deleted .....

[MOWOG]

Here's an idea. Why not wait until AFTER the first race to assess the merits or demerits of Formula E?

[NTS]

Good point. And also +1 for Tim. The shape of the torque curve doesn't matter at all, even the total pre-gearbox torque doesn't matter. What matters is what happens at the wheels and whether the maximum is more than the grip could handle or not. If the maximum is below grip limits you will probably have a boring race, much like a rental kart track, since anybody could drive it. If max torque is above the limit of grip you need skill to drive it and watching the race will potentially be lots of fun.

The engine characteristic are a very small part in this since there is a gearbox in between and pedal/engine mapping allows for fine tuning of the response. So let's first see how the racing in these machines looks and how it develops in 2015 [-o<

[autogyro]

Yes, well done Tim.
I think many of us were getting bored with the ICE worshippers continuing their campaign against the credibility of electric racing and using any incorrect physics they choose to do so.
The truth is the only difference is the noise and that prevents ICE powered cars from racing in City centres their problem.
The flat torque curve of electric motors does place more load on the gearbox input shaft though.
In FE this probably wont matter yet, because Hewland were given the monopoly on gear trains for the first year and they will be able to over engineer the unit to gain reliability safe in the knowledge that there is no competition.
Much the same for Siemens with the motors.
My fear is that commercial pressure will be applied after the first year to keep it basically a spec formula.
This must be fought against if technical development is to happen.

[Andres125sx]

2 days, 15 hours, 33 minutes for first FE GP! :

[FW17]

Wish they had got the styling a bit better like with the fioravanti

[stefan_]

Here is a nice picture of what the car looks like without the all the cover.

[FW17]

Here is a great picture of what the car looks like without the all the cover.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxL5nD_CIAAUzxf.jpg:large

What is the greatness we are looking at?

The fact that the rear does not have a heave spring?

Or the giant dampers?

Poor packaging?

Wheel teethers duct taped to the wishbone?

[stefan_]

I replaced "great" with "nice". Better now ?

[Richard]

Here is a nice picture of what the car looks like without the all the cover.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxL5nD_CIAAUzxf.jpg:large

Thanks, it's great to see some hardware at last. I hope they have an open garage door policy similar to F1 so we can see more of the cars over the weekend.

[machin]

Similar pic, but showing even more:-