2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
Restomaniac
Restomaniac
0
Joined: 16 May 2016, 01:09
Location: Hull

Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

Post

Wynters wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 18:15
izzy wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 16:58
he needs to see that Lewis' judgment is what's made him so successful. Not aggression.
I was thinking about this yesterday (as Hamilton was bouncing across the grass having been pushed off for a second time before he even reached T3). It seems he's got a reputation as someone who can just be pushed around by the others. Verstappen does it, Leclerc does it, Vettel does it. My initial, instinctive reaction was that it's a weakness.

But, as I thought about it more, I realised the opposite was obviously true.

When someone pushes Hamilton around, he might lose the position (see Leclerc in Monza and Vettel & Verstappen in Mexico) but, worse-case-scenario, he only scores slightly fewer points than he might have at the end of the race. When, in the same situation, the others let their machismo do they talking...they spin, pick up punctures or DNF half (most of?) the time. Hamilton might give people plenty of space and ease off rather than keep his foot in, but he scores far more points that way. It's fascinating that the others don't seem to have realised it.
Indeed it’s all about the long game. He’s very much like Prost in that regard.

izzy
izzy
41
Joined: 26 May 2019, 22:28

Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

Post

Wynters wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 18:15
izzy wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 16:58
he needs to see that Lewis' judgment is what's made him so successful. Not aggression.
I was thinking about this yesterday (as Hamilton was bouncing across the grass having been pushed off for a second time before he even reached T3). It seems he's got a reputation as someone who can just be pushed around by the others. Verstappen does it, Leclerc does it, Vettel does it. My initial, instinctive reaction was that it's a weakness.

But, as I thought about it more, I realised the opposite was obviously true.

When someone pushes Hamilton around, he might lose the position (see Leclerc in Monza and Vettel & Verstappen in Mexico) but, worse-case-scenario, he only scores slightly fewer points than he might have at the end of the race. When, in the same situation, the others let their machismo do they talking...they spin, pick up punctures or DNF half (most of?) the time. Hamilton might give people plenty of space and ease off rather than keep his foot in, but he scores far more points that way. It's fascinating that the others don't seem to have realised it.
yes exactly. i think Lewis' intelligence is so interesting. He's a bit dyslexic and not 'academic' but there are levels where he just thinks very, very fast and clearly. Take Monaco last year - as you kinda say Max knew he was safe to divebomb Lewis into the chicane, because Lewis wouldn't just madly turn in. But what Lewis did do was close the line enough to touch wheels, and that gave him a licence to shortcut the chicane without giving the place back! Max knew this was what Lewis intended as well, he commented on it :)

and the same thing happens over and over. Lewis has this intuitive understanding of the physics of it all I think, and knows instantly, all the time, when it's in his favour, or when it isn't and he has to back off as you say and take home the points. when Lewis and someone actually touch, more often than not it's the other guy who regrets it. Yesterday i think he knew he could have enough momentum to make it Max's problem, and it was the same for example in Monza last year when he went round the outside of Seb into the first chicane- Lewis was not actually on the limit of grip between the apexes, so when Seb hit him Lewis' car didn't spin it was Seb's. And Monza this year with Charles, Lewis did enough to get Charles investigated. Same with Seb in Canada. No contact, but. And this is why I believe in the tyre radio as a tactic too (otherwise it's a bit pointless isn't it)

Who among the young guns can reach this level, on top of the pace?

MakkieT
MakkieT
0
Joined: 07 Feb 2015, 21:47

Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

Post

And yet, cut off radio contact so he has to go it alone, and he would probably falter. I always hear him say *guys, what should we do?* He is a fantastic racer with exquisite car control, but he cannot read a race. Compare that with someone like Alonso or Schumacher and he really comes up short.

3jawchuck
3jawchuck
37
Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 08:57

Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

Post

bill shoe wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 03:53
Scorpaguy wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 02:17
Ham translator:
"There is no way these tires are going to last until the end of the race...we pitted too early!"
...actually means...
"our delta to Vet will be easily manageable...we have this guys."
Master strategy play by Merc today. Ham is a terrible actor, but Ferrari bought it.
... Or can Hamilton simply press a button (let's call it the "I'm hamming it up" button) on his steering wheel so if he wants to say misleading info on his radio for the sake of competitor consumption then he do that while clearly signally his crew not to read anything into it. The FIA can force teams to share radio communication, but the FIA can't force teams to share the status of all car buttons/settings. Now that I think about it, teams would be crazy to not have that type of button....
Could the pit confirm button be used in such a fashion? Press it when making a bluff statement or something?

User avatar
dans79
267
Joined: 03 Mar 2013, 19:33
Location: USA

Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

Post

MakkieT wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 19:13
And yet, cut off radio contact so he has to go it alone, and he would probably falter. I always hear him say *guys, what should we do?* He is a fantastic racer with exquisite car control, but he cannot read a race. Compare that with someone like Alonso or Schumacher and he really comes up short.
None of them can read a race, as they have no way of knowing all the gaps and deltas without being feed it by the pitwall. Reading the race like you are talking about went the way of the dodo about 40 years ago.

The radio broadcasts are super played up by FOM/liberty, for the sake of the "spectacle". :sick:
197 104 103 7

izzy
izzy
41
Joined: 26 May 2019, 22:28

Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

Post

MakkieT wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 19:13
And yet, cut off radio contact so he has to go it alone, and he would probably falter. I always hear him say *guys, what should we do?* He is a fantastic racer with exquisite car control, but he cannot read a race. Compare that with someone like Alonso or Schumacher and he really comes up short.
lol, it's amazing how often Lewis "would probably" have these terrible shortcomings. Schumi was always on the radio, for the exact same reason, of using the team as a resource in every possible way. It was Lewis who knew they should undercut in Singapore wasn't it. Fernando yes is super smart but not quite as quick, and not quite as smart in every department that matters...

User avatar
NathanOlder
48
Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 10:05
Location: Kent

Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

Post

Exactly, If your leading, you can maybe see a car or 2 behind, once they pit, you have no idea. Alonso and Schumacher needed tons of info to read a race, just like Lewis and Seb do today. To think otherwise is crazy.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
82
Joined: 15 Jun 2014, 09:48

Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

Post

I always though Hamilton was pretty determent when overtaking. But actually he is not, he just knows when to make contact or when to back off.

Like when he hit Verstappen in China en send him wide in the dirty part of the track.

Or with Rosberg in Austria, when he just steered right into Nico’s side. Breaking Nico’s wing and Nico also got the blame for it.

zeph
zeph
1
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 11:54
Location: Los Angeles

Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

Post

I don’t remember seeing him during the race, but am very happy to see Perez take “best of the rest” in his home GP.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
592
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

Post

3jawchuck wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 19:21
bill shoe wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 03:53
Scorpaguy wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 02:17
Ham translator:
"There is no way these tires are going to last until the end of the race...we pitted too early!"
...actually means...
"our delta to Vet will be easily manageable...we have this guys."
Master strategy play by Merc today. Ham is a terrible actor, but Ferrari bought it.
... Or can Hamilton simply press a button (let's call it the "I'm hamming it up" button) on his steering wheel so if he wants to say misleading info on his radio for the sake of competitor consumption then he do that while clearly signally his crew not to read anything into it. The FIA can force teams to share radio communication, but the FIA can't force teams to share the status of all car buttons/settings. Now that I think about it, teams would be crazy to not have that type of button....
Could the pit confirm button be used in such a fashion? Press it when making a bluff statement or something?
They have tyre info settings on the wheel. Easy to have a "tyre condition" setting that tells the team via telemetry. They used to do this very thing.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

GrizzleBoy
GrizzleBoy
33
Joined: 05 Mar 2012, 04:06

Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

Post

NathanOlder wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 19:55
Exactly, If your leading, you can maybe see a car or 2 behind, once they pit, you have no idea. Alonso and Schumacher needed tons of info to read a race, just like Lewis and Seb do today. To think otherwise is crazy.
Uh, wtf are you guys even talking about?

I play F1 games all the time and everyone knows theres always a track map that shows the positions of the drivers around you.

Not to mention the name tags and race position number floating above all the other drivers.

The fact that Lewis doesnt have these things when Schumi and Alonso obviously did and never needed pitwall assistance just shows hes not on the same level as a real champion.

ThumbsUp
ThumbsUp
16
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 10:32

Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

Post

Question: Does Max keeps the pole statistically?

Because the Pirelli pole lap video shows Leclercs lap.


3jawchuck
3jawchuck
37
Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 08:57

Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

Post

ThumbsUp wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 20:10
Question: Does Max keeps the pole statistically?
No.

ThumbsUp
ThumbsUp
16
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 10:32

Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

Post

3jawchuck wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 20:19
ThumbsUp wrote:
28 Oct 2019, 20:10
Question: Does Max keeps the pole statistically?
No.
But his time 1.14.7 is still in the official results.

digitalrurouni
digitalrurouni
13
Joined: 26 Feb 2016, 18:50

Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

Post

All this discussion about Max and his penalty...just watched his poke press conference and man that was cringe. Totally deserved penalty. Hope no one here is doubting Max should have been punished for not lifting in a yellow flag.