Is Hamilton desperate or what?

[gridwalker]

Passing "off track" has been an issue in racing for as long as I can remember : I don't think you can fairly pin that down to a single driver for "starting" it ...

[vall]

Passing "off track" has been an issue in racing for as long as I can remember : I don't think you can fairly pin that down to a single driver for "starting" it ...

exactly! and there is a difference if you go off track to pass, or you go off track while attempting a pass.

[ISLAMATRON]

8:2 For Hamilton... Button is a Joke

Not exactly a joke, but he gets regularly beaten by LH, no questions about that.

Alonso seems much more desperate, Banging into his teammate passing people off the track

with all that bad luck lately and having a car capable to much better results, he may indeed be desperate to get a good results. But as I posted in another thread, the collision with Massa was a typical 1st corned accident. But anyway it was not as bad as taking off one of your direct competitors for WCD by punching his tire and do you remember who started all this passign off track thing?

I remember the rule being put in place after Zanardi's famous corkscrew "The Pass"
Alonso clearly ran into Massa and then put him off track, and then he passed his best buddy off the track. Alonso is clearly desperate... as he should be.

But this is the HAmilton Bashing thread... there are plenty of other Alonso bashing threads

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Whats the bigger joke?

That Hamilton is 8:2 up or that he is only 12 points ahead of a "joke"?

http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/

Again, more proof that points dont mean jack when determining the quality of a driver... and that only an dumb ass would use points as a measuring stick to do so.

[-X So what your saying the points system is wrong and qualifying is where its at?
Seriously?



This debate is now over.

[ringo]

Points means something, but not points gap. Hamilton cannot stop Mclaren from giving button the best chance to score good points. As we saw from silverstone, Button's strength is the pit wall.

No matter how good the driver, he can at most gap his teammate by 7 points a race, if they both do they best, and this is if you are in a top car.
What is important is rate at which Hamilton is gapping button every race weekend.
He's taking big chuncks since barcelna.
Heiki even has a better qualifying record against Lewis, and it confirms my speculation that Heiki is faster than Most drivers out there, even Button.

Button is soundly beaten. He wanted to lead going into silverstone, his fans thought he would be, after Lewis was down 2 wins, and He also wanted to finish on podium.
He did not win or podium his home GP, and he is down 12 points to lewis with Webber hot on his heels.
That is a big blow, and it looks like this pattern will go on till season's end.
That sneaky pass on Hamilton is turkey, is coming back to bite him.

[ISLAMATRON]

Whats the bigger joke?

That Hamilton is 8:2 up or that he is only 12 points ahead of a "joke"?

http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/

Again, more proof that points dont mean jack when determining the quality of a driver... and that only an dumb ass would use points as a measuring stick to do so.

[-X So what your saying the points system is wrong and qualifying is where its at?
Seriously?

Who said anything about qualifying? Anyway Qualifying is more real(since low fuel is back) than this arbitrary points system, last year a win is 10 points, this year it is 2.5X as many points... it is rediculous... and basically something for simple minded people to understand who finished where over the course of a season. Lewis has soundly beaten Button every weekend except for JB's 2 lucky ones, and even on those 2 weekends Lewis passed Button on track only for JB to get a break on lucky calls.

If you think LH is only 1.2 "points" per race better than Button you clearly do not understand what is going on during the races.

[andrew]

But it IS the points that count at the end of the year. That's what everyone looks at.

[marcush.]

if anything is true than it is that Lewis Hamilton is without a doubt one fine F1 driver and absolutely one of the best formula 1 has ever seen .Bearing in mind just how short his F1 career is one can only admire him for what he is showing in terms of fine performances in a car not quite the class of the field.
But ,and I´m very happy to see this:Button might be not as sharp as lewis in his driving but in terms of reeling in points and relentlessly working on his aim to win the championship he manages to be second in the current standings...so if lewis was not there he´d be leading this championship against RedBull.... So without a doubt these two deserve a lot of credit as does Macs who were not quite the best at designing tthe 2010 contender but they are displaying by far the best team effort,not without flaws but better than the other contenders .

[ISLAMATRON]

But it IS the points that count at the end of the year. That's what everyone looks at.

You are not "everyone", it may be what you look at, but that does not mean everyone. Points are just a snap shot of the entire picture, a very blurry one at that, if some or even most are satisfied with that level of information then so be it... ignorance is bliss as they say.

[ringo]

if anything is true than it is that Lewis Hamilton is without a doubt one fine F1 driver and absolutely one of the best formula 1 has ever seen .Bearing in mind just how short his F1 career is one can only admire him for what he is showing in terms of fine performances in a car not quite the class of the field.
But ,and I´m very happy to see this:Button might be not as sharp as lewis in his driving but in terms of reeling in points and relentlessly working on his aim to win the championship he manages to be second in the current standings...so if lewis was not there he´d be leading this championship against RedBull.... So without a doubt these two deserve a lot of credit as does Macs who were not quite the best at designing tthe 2010 contender but they are displaying by far the best team effort,not without flaws but better than the other contenders .

Agree with everything, however button would not be leading the redbulls. The whole season would look different. To beat the redbulls he would have to be fast enough to challenge them, or fast enough to be first or second row to apply pressure at the start.
Trundling around, waiting for good pit calls or driver mistakes, only works on cars with slower race pace.
If you check the races Button has managed a recovery from pit stops. It has been greatly assisted by the Mp4 25s pace against the lesser cars and Whitmarsh's well oiled strategical team.
So i would guess vettel would be leading, if Hamilton was not at Mclaren. Redbull simply would not be pressured enough to cause their 2 drivers to fight. Redbull would have all the wins except 3.
In fact i can't remember button pressuring any driver, much less a driver in a faster car. He rather wait for the chance to come to him.

[Ciro Pabón]

But this is the HAmilton Bashing thread... there are plenty of other Alonso bashing threads

This is no bashing thread. There are no bashing threads in this forum. We don't bash drivers, we like F1. We come here to learn from F1 drivers.

If you see a post bashing an F1 driver, specially the WDCs, the best drivers on Earth, please report it.

[marcush.]

i think you do not give him credit enough:
On both hamilton wins ,Button came home insecond.I have no reason to believe he just was second because Hamilton led the way...
I might be oversimplifying things but he surely would be closer to lewis considering this really idiotic thing that hapened to him in montecarlo...
I surely agree that hamilton is one notch sharper but button still does deliver and he is in a comfort zone accepting he does not have access to that last tenths hamilton somehow is able to extract.this alone is a sign of strength..in a Prost ways.
to see him in second in the current ranking is not pure luck the guy is good.

[PlatinumZealot]

Good in what ways? I think it's just experience and waiting till the time is right. If Formula 1 was anything like Kung-fu movies you can even call it "Vulture style" driving. Button mostly "Scavenges" in the race. Circle around like a vulture and wait for something to go wrong: another driver pitstops at the wrong time, another driver runs off track, rain falls, Saftey car etc. Just like a Vulture, he never wins with speed, strength or tenacity.

[ringo]

i think you do not give him credit enough:
On both hamilton wins ,Button came home insecond.I have no reason to believe he just was second because Hamilton led the way...
I might be oversimplifying things but he surely would be closer to lewis considering this really idiotic thing that hapened to him in montecarlo...
I surely agree that hamilton is one notch sharper but button still does deliver and he is in a comfort zone accepting he does not have access to that last tenths hamilton somehow is able to extract.this alone is a sign of strength..in a Prost ways.
to see him in second in the current ranking is not pure luck the guy is good.

In Hamilton's first win, button was second becuase of the redbull crash, which was caused by hamilton pressuring them. Button was nowhere in that race with a chance of even sniffing the redbulls.

He was in 11th in monaco, i doubt he would scored points there. If Hamilton finished barcelona that was a sure 18 points so more than likely that DNF carries more weight. Button's monaco race was no guarantee for points.

I credit button for his ability to calmly stick to the game plane and use the cars ability to move up the grid, but it is my opinion that he has not yet showed the speed, required to stop a red bull. Outside of a freak accident or mechanical failure, his driving style cannot bring him ahead of Vettel or Webber, just not fast enough and is not getting the most of the Mp4 25.


Hamilton attacked the redbulls in turkey, attacked the redbulls in valencia, attacked them in china, attacked the redbulls in silverstone and so on.
Hamilton basically threw a spanner in the redbull works and is why Horner, Vettel and Webber are keeping a close eye on him alone.
It's this kind of driving that gets you at the top of the standings in the long run. You simply have to attack.
If Hamilton wasn't in the team, the Mp4 25 would seem like the fourth/fifth fastest car, slower than the Mercedes of Rosberg or the Renault of Kubica, all becuase Button can't show it's true pace.

If Button is not sharp enough, he wont be second in the WDC after Germany.
Webber and Vettel are looking stronger every weekend and Ferrari a slapping on some big updates.

[marcush.]

ah ,I see from were you are coming...
I also love the spectacular stellar performances...no question about that..But you cannot ignore the fact that Buttons approach and performances have netted somehow only 12 points less than Hamilton has in the same time.... it is a bit like the soccer world cup ,
where the result orientated teams did win the trophy ,not those who played the most attractive games..
I would like to leave it at that and look with big curiosity towards the season finals to see just how many points the difference of these two will be in the end.