The end of domination: Is Red Bull becoming desperate?

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Will Red Bull strike back?

Yes, with Newey everything is possible.
24
19%
No, McLaren is too strong.
13
10%
No and that is good for the sport.
33
26%
Yes, Vettel will compensate the shortcomings of RB8.
6
5%
Flying under the radar, Webber will win WDC.
9
7%
Yes, they have the money and the right people.
21
17%
I wish they continue failing big time, bloody cheaters.
21
17%
 
Total votes: 127

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NathanOlder
48
Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 10:05
Location: Kent

Re: The end of domination: Is Red Bull becoming desperate?

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Pup wrote:Absolutely. If both races had been event-free, then we'd have had two very convincing McLaren 1-2's.

Thankyou :)

So hopefully China will be dry and no safety cars.
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raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: The end of domination: Is Red Bull becoming desperate?

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Aha. Now I'm following what you mean. Yes really. We'll see how China goes. China is always an interesting one
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WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: The end of domination: Is Red Bull becoming desperate?

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Pup wrote:Funny, I thought that the general expectation was that when McLaren hit their stride, they'll wipe the tracks with those other guys.
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Believe me, with the odds like that those people who bet money do not expect Mc Laren to wipe the tracks with their competitors. This looks much more like a fight going one way and the other between Red Bull and McLaren for the rest of the season.

Naturally as a McLaren fan you may be a bit more optimistic than the average punter. I still don't see why you believe the world shares that view with you.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Pup
Pup
50
Joined: 08 May 2008, 17:45

Re: The end of domination: Is Red Bull becoming desperate?

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According to that graph, the odds on Red Bull are more than twice those on McLaren. They look close, but only because the bookies are apparently pretty desperate to get someone to put some money on Ferrari. Looks can be deceiving.

The bookies think that McLaren are twice as likely to win as Red Bull. That doesn't sound like a much of a horse race to me.

But 26:1 on Ferrari? 50:1 on Merc? Yowza.
WhiteBlue wrote:I still don't see why you believe the world shares that view with you.
Because your graph told me so.

bigpat
bigpat
19
Joined: 29 Mar 2012, 01:50

Re: The end of domination: Is Red Bull becoming desperate?

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It cracks me up that after 2 races, people are righting teams and drivers off for the title!!!!! You can't really say we have a clear indication yet.

People, the game really starts when the European season kicks off. Barcelona will show the real pecking order of the teams. If Red Bull don't have any aero prowess there, THEN we know we will have a really great season of racing.

Just because Red Bull aren't blitzing the field, doesn't mean they are struggling. Wait until you see how fast the top teams churn out updates now. In this regard, I think McLaren are the best, as they have demonstrated over the last 3 years that they can catch up quickly. Red Bull... We'll see how well they chase, rather than leading. Lotus Renault have shown their CFD/ aero talent, in developing the car, last years disater notwithstanding.

Unfortunately Ferrari typically take half a season to get on track. I honestly think they still suffer from being too reliant in pounding out testing laps to test and develop solutions. They testing restrictions hurt them the most I think....

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FrukostScones
163
Joined: 25 May 2010, 17:41
Location: European Union

Re: The end of domination: Is Red Bull becoming desperate?

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I love those faces, pure desperation! But in China they can shine again, of course we don't know yet what will happen and I surely don't write Red Bull off, and a McLaren domination would be horrible as well, I want a different race winner for every race, I want drama and excitement and not a boring one man/one team show. Imagine 2012 topping 2010 in terms of thrill, that would be nice.
I have the feeling that China will be wet aswell, so we maybe will have to wait till Bahrain or Barcelona to see the real power standing and due to development it then might have already shifted. So we will maybe never know if what would could have happened.... :mrgreen:
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

Pup
Pup
50
Joined: 08 May 2008, 17:45

Re: The end of domination: Is Red Bull becoming desperate?

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bigpat wrote:It cracks me up that after 2 races, people are righting teams and drivers off for the title!!!!!
I think some of these teams could stand to be righted. :wink:

Maelstrom
Maelstrom
0
Joined: 26 Mar 2012, 06:38

Re: The end of domination: Is Red Bull becoming desperate?

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The ironic thing is that after two races Alonso heads the list of drivers with most points. So how can Ferrari have such terrible odds? ;)

If Ferrari get their act together soon they might have a shot at the WDC this year.

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WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: The end of domination: Is Red Bull becoming desperate?

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Pup wrote:According to that graph, the odds on Red Bull are more than twice those on McLaren. They look close, but only because the bookies are apparently pretty desperate to get someone to put some money on Ferrari. Looks can be deceiving.

The bookies think that McLaren are twice as likely to win as Red Bull. That doesn't sound like a much of a horse race to me.

But 26:1 on Ferrari? 50:1 on Merc? Yowza.
WhiteBlue wrote:I still don't see why you believe the world shares that view with you.
Because your graph told me so.
If you had checked the whole graph you would have seen that McLaren and Red Bull were in a different order some weeks ago. At this stage of the season it can change from week to week. Twice as much doesn't mean anything if both teams are somewhere between 1.5 and 3. If Red Bull where somewhere like Ferrari I would start to be concerned.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

chepoi
chepoi
0
Joined: 14 Jan 2004, 11:35
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Re: The end of domination: Is Red Bull becoming desperate?

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FrukostScones wrote:Image

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I love those faces, pure desperation! But in China they can shine again, of course we don't know yet what will happen and I surely don't write Red Bull off, and a McLaren domination would be horrible as well, I want a different race winner for every race, I want drama and excitement and not a boring one man/one team show. Imagine 2012 topping 2010 in terms of thrill, that would be nice.
I have the feeling that China will be wet aswell, so we maybe will have to wait till Bahrain or Barcelona to see the real power standing and due to development it then might have already shifted. So we will maybe never know if what would could have happened.... :mrgreen:

even though McLaren win both of the championship this year... it is not what we called domination.. it still the different winner from the last 2 years. am i right? is it wrong if Mclaren win the rest of season race? i think that you have to think the right definitions of dominations it self.... or it might be hurt you when you are the red bull fans to see others win.

just to be fair.... if any team dominate the race it actually means that the team have a better package, better preparation and it also means that the other is not very good preparation and packaged. is that wrong?

the syndrome that red bull facing right now is the same syndrome McLaren faced during season 1999 - 2009. If the rules and regulations still the same i don't think that McLaren have to lose WCC & WDC 2000 - 2007.

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megz
1
Joined: 14 Mar 2007, 09:57
Location: New Zealand

Re: The end of domination: Is Red Bull becoming desperate?

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King Six wrote:Red Bull don't exist for F1, just like manufacturing teams they exist as a billboard. As soon as the success dries or (or for some, doesn't arrive at all) they'll exit the sport. The F1 team needs to impress the 'board of directors' enough or they'll be thrown into the sewer.

So saying that, this season will be a little watershed moment for the team and company. Will they turn it around? If they don't, will key personnel and the higher ups start to lose interest? If so, and the team starts slowly dropping back, that'll easily be the beginning of the end.
If this were true why did Red Bull stay in the sport despite limited to no real success until their 5th season (2009). As WhiteBlue pointed out Red Bull have been sponsoring for far longer too. 1995's Sauber was HEAVILY covered in Red Bull.

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Red Bull will leave as a manufacturer eventually - like almost every team in the sport has done so far. Will it be at the end of this year? I seriously doubt it.

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raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: The end of domination: Is Red Bull becoming desperate?

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Huh? Red Bull will become a manufacturer? Why on earth would they suddenly enter a market they have no experience in?
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NathanOlder
48
Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 10:05
Location: Kent

Re: The end of domination: Is Red Bull becoming desperate?

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I can see some sense when people say Red Bull could leave after a few bad seasons.
Coming in as a sponser and slowly rising in the the sport is easy when things gradually get better.
Then to buy a team and again steadily rise, this time to the very top is satisfyingly easy if you have the funds and people in place.
But lets say, Red Bull end up 3rd this year in the WCC and some way off in the WDC with Webber infront of Vettel. The teams morale could be at an all time low as its the first time the team have taken a real step backwards.

With the team trying to upgrade the RB8 desperatly , the RB9 is over looked and next year is a real disaster. Ferrari/Mercedes come in and take key personel and the big names leave. Vettel could leave for Ferrari or Team Germany (mercedes) easily.

Before you know it the owner decides to sell up and cut his losses.


I very much doubt this will happen. Just a prediction of how things COULD go. So dont start telling me its impossible and im an idiot. :mrgreen:
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raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: The end of domination: Is Red Bull becoming desperate?

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NathanOlder wrote:With the team trying to upgrade the RB8 desperatly , the RB9 is over looked and next year is a real disaster.
If the situation really was that bad then they'd start on the RB9 mid-season. Or knowing Newey maybe he'll go for the gold and start on the RB10 in mid-2012; aiming for a jump on the others for when the new engine regulations come along.
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Fat_T0ny
Fat_T0ny
0
Joined: 14 May 2011, 03:35

Re: The end of domination: Is Red Bull becoming desperate?

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raymondu999 wrote:It doesn't take a millionaire to see the difference between a diversified marketing strategy and a diversified product range.

You missed my point.

I was responding to Pups irrelevant fanboy comment.

"But if it happens - and since the company has mind-bogglingly refused to diversify - then the money for all the sports franchises disappears"

I didn't realise we were talking about how to run a business. F1 forum is it not????

This place is starting to look like planetf1. Fanboys galore.