Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Fulcrum wrote:Anyone managing to lap the circuit in 77.500 - 78.000 is probably driving in the vicinity of Alonso's 2006 Pole time.
You're giving alonso's laptime too much credit. Webber's 2010 pole lap of 1:19.9 was neck and neck with alonso's pole lap from 2006 up trough the first 2 sectors, thus any lap equalling 80s will be in the vicinity of alonso's pole.
Firstly, Alonso having set the lap is not my focus. Somebody else referenced his lap. It could have been anyone setting the lap. I was simply stating the differentials we've observed in testing thus far and an estimate of what would need to be achieved to produce a similar lap under the current track configuration with these cars.
Webber's laps may very well have been in the vicinity of Alonso's, I don't have the data. If the splits were similar he probably was driving an equivalent speed. So let's expand the comparison and include him if necessary.
The current specification of cars have far higher levels of mechanical grip, they don't lose 6 seconds through the last sector like they used to; already this gap is closer to 4 seconds. My suggesting a 77.500 - 78.000 as an equivalent laptime takes this into account.
The fastest combined laptime on day 2 was 80.637 - 23.165, 29.979, 27.493; the first two sectors being a full 0.977 slower than the 2006 Pole time.
On day 3 they managed a combined 79.548 - 23.074, 29.713, 26.761; the lap was 1.089 seconds faster overall, but only 0.357 faster through the first two sectors, still 0.620 seconds slower than the 2006 time.
If you assume the same rate of improvement across the sectors as times get faster, lap times would need to be 0.357/0.620*1.089 = 1.891 seconds faster; i.e. a 77.657 being equivalent to the 2006 lap.
I fully expect the ratio of sector improvement to alter slightly as engine maps become more aggressive, but I haven't factored in the thermal differences between testing and race day either.
Bottom line(s):
- I'm not trying to credit Alonso - or anyone else.
- I'm not trying to discredit the current Formula.
- I simply wanted to assess lap time equivalence with the information we have available, even if this exercise is largely irrelevant.
Fulcrum wrote:Firstly, Alonso having set the lap is not my focus. Somebody else referenced his lap. It could have been anyone setting the lap. I was simply stating the differentials we've observed in testing thus far and an estimate of what would need to be achieved to produce a similar lap under the current track configuration with these cars.
Webber's laps may very well have been in the vicinity of Alonso's, I don't have the data. If the splits were similar he probably was driving an equivalent speed. So let's expand the comparison and include him if necessary.
The current specification of cars have far higher levels of mechanical grip, they don't lose 6 seconds through the last sector like they used to; already this gap is closer to 4 seconds. My suggesting a 77.500 - 78.000 as an equivalent laptime takes this into account.
The fastest combined laptime on day 2 was 80.637 - 23.165, 29.979, 27.493; the first two sectors being a full 0.977 slower than the 2006 Pole time.
On day 3 they managed a combined 79.548 - 23.074, 29.713, 26.761; the lap was 1.089 seconds faster overall, but only 0.357 faster through the first two sectors, still 0.620 seconds slower than the 2006 time.
If you assume the same rate of improvement across the sectors as times get faster, lap times would need to be 0.357/0.620*1.089 = 1.891 seconds faster; i.e. a 77.657 being equivalent to the 2006 lap.
I fully expect the ratio of sector improvement to alter slightly as engine maps become more aggressive, but I haven't factored in the thermal differences between testing and race day either.
Bottom line(s):
- I'm not trying to credit Alonso - or anyone else.
- I'm not trying to discredit the current Formula.
- I simply wanted to assess lap time equivalence with the information we have available, even if this exercise is largely irrelevant.
Do you think these cars would beat the 2004-2005 cars around the circuit pre-2008 before they put the chicane there?
Fulcrum wrote:Firstly, Alonso having set the lap is not my focus. Somebody else referenced his lap. It could have been anyone setting the lap. I was simply stating the differentials we've observed in testing thus far and an estimate of what would need to be achieved to produce a similar lap under the current track configuration with these cars.
Webber's laps may very well have been in the vicinity of Alonso's, I don't have the data. If the splits were similar he probably was driving an equivalent speed. So let's expand the comparison and include him if necessary.
The current specification of cars have far higher levels of mechanical grip, they don't lose 6 seconds through the last sector like they used to; already this gap is closer to 4 seconds. My suggesting a 77.500 - 78.000 as an equivalent laptime takes this into account.
The fastest combined laptime on day 2 was 80.637 - 23.165, 29.979, 27.493; the first two sectors being a full 0.977 slower than the 2006 Pole time.
On day 3 they managed a combined 79.548 - 23.074, 29.713, 26.761; the lap was 1.089 seconds faster overall, but only 0.357 faster through the first two sectors, still 0.620 seconds slower than the 2006 time.
If you assume the same rate of improvement across the sectors as times get faster, lap times would need to be 0.357/0.620*1.089 = 1.891 seconds faster; i.e. a 77.657 being equivalent to the 2006 lap.
I fully expect the ratio of sector improvement to alter slightly as engine maps become more aggressive, but I haven't factored in the thermal differences between testing and race day either.
Bottom line(s):
- I'm not trying to credit Alonso - or anyone else.
- I'm not trying to discredit the current Formula.
- I simply wanted to assess lap time equivalence with the information we have available, even if this exercise is largely irrelevant.
Do you think these cars would beat the 2004-2005 cars around the circuit pre-2008 before they put the chicane there?
Ralf Schumacher managed a 74.280 in Q4 in 2005, and that on grooved, bulletproof tyres. I don't think this year's cars are going to match that level of performance, primarily because of their significant weight differential.
Fulcrum wrote:Firstly, Alonso having set the lap is not my focus. Somebody else referenced his lap. It could have been anyone setting the lap. I was simply stating the differentials we've observed in testing thus far and an estimate of what would need to be achieved to produce a similar lap under the current track configuration with these cars.
Webber's laps may very well have been in the vicinity of Alonso's, I don't have the data. If the splits were similar he probably was driving an equivalent speed. So let's expand the comparison and include him if necessary.
The current specification of cars have far higher levels of mechanical grip, they don't lose 6 seconds through the last sector like they used to; already this gap is closer to 4 seconds. My suggesting a 77.500 - 78.000 as an equivalent laptime takes this into account.
The fastest combined laptime on day 2 was 80.637 - 23.165, 29.979, 27.493; the first two sectors being a full 0.977 slower than the 2006 Pole time.
On day 3 they managed a combined 79.548 - 23.074, 29.713, 26.761; the lap was 1.089 seconds faster overall, but only 0.357 faster through the first two sectors, still 0.620 seconds slower than the 2006 time.
If you assume the same rate of improvement across the sectors as times get faster, lap times would need to be 0.357/0.620*1.089 = 1.891 seconds faster; i.e. a 77.657 being equivalent to the 2006 lap.
I fully expect the ratio of sector improvement to alter slightly as engine maps become more aggressive, but I haven't factored in the thermal differences between testing and race day either.
Bottom line(s):
- I'm not trying to credit Alonso - or anyone else.
- I'm not trying to discredit the current Formula.
- I simply wanted to assess lap time equivalence with the information we have available, even if this exercise is largely irrelevant.
Do you think these cars would beat the 2004-2005 cars around the circuit pre-2008 before they put the chicane there?
Ralf Schumacher managed a 74.280 in Q4 in 2005, and that on grooved, bulletproof tyres. I don't think this year's cars are going to match that level of performance, primarily because of their significant weight differential.
Don't forget though that was before the chicane was introduced.
Wass85 wrote:
Do you think these cars would beat the 2004-2005 cars around the circuit pre-2008 before they put the chicane there?
Ralf Schumacher managed a 74.280 in Q4 in 2005, and that on grooved, bulletproof tyres. I don't think this year's cars are going to match that level of performance, primarily because of their significant weight differential.
Don't forget though that was before the chicane was introduced.
I am aware of that. My entire line of thought has been to assess a comparable lap time from the current circuit map to the pre-chicane era.
Pirelli predicts 1.18.000
Mercedes more cautious (or sandbag ballasted) and can imagine something between 1.18.5 and 1.18.7
(intersting would be what they could do for real )
Friday will be quite hot 25 C according to forecasts http://www.myweather2.com/Motor-Racing/ ... ecast.aspx
so track tarmac should be good for glory laps.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.
I think, and I believe every F1 fun think that end of the tomorrow testing ferrari and merc set their fastest lap times.
İf ferrari use u.s. tyre it May be 1.18.+++
My prediction ; Kimi Raikkonen 1.18.290
Does anyone know of a list of circuits that have changed the least since the 80's until today?
Off the top of my head:
Hungaroring
Monaco
Canada
Magny Cours
Suzuka
Brazil
Jerez
Not in any particular order. I think Brazil changed the least though. Would be awesome to get an all time near exact comparison of all qualifying times from every year and pick out the fastest F1 year ever.
F1 car width now 2.0m (same as 1993-1997). Lets go crazy and bring the 2.2m cars back (<1992).